Problems with songwriting, need some help ;)

[schmudd]

hello everybody,

my name is Jonas and i'm 17 years old.

i play guitar for 4 years and piano for about 1,5 years.

 

music is my greatest hobby and i play around 1 to 2 hours a day

 

since 1 year i try to write own songs in the style of muse, keane, coldplay, ratm and qotsa.

i have many ideas but my problem is that i can't go one with another part.

 

for example i have a nice intro riff than i don't find a chorus or following part that sounds good.

 

every time when i try to find new parts and i realize that it don't works, i become really angry

 

 

now i want to ask if somebody has got skills in this area and can hear out my demos and give me some tip's.

 

it would be fantastic if someone can give me his/her icq/skype oder msn adress

 

i'm very frustrated, so pleaaase help me

 

best regards,

 

jonas (icq: 198462378, skype:schmuudd)

[Mary182]

Do you know much theory? If not, I suggest you try learning some. It'll learn you all about key signatures, scales etc and give you a better idea on what sounds good with what and what doesnt.

 

inb4theorylimitscreativity

 

Also, chances are, your first 100000000000000 songs aren't going to be very good (but i'd love for you to prove me wrong). it's a skill youll build up over time, learning from mistakes from your previous songs. Make a point to finish every song you start, no matter how crap or awful it gets.

[schmudd]

i have good basics about theory but not more

 

in my guitar lessons i make a lot of theory, especially building scales, triads and something like that

[cheddatom]

say you're playing a riff, it's all single string groovy heavy stuff. The last note you play is the last note before your chord in your verse or chorus. Use that note as a route note, and build a chord (could be just a power chord). Then play this chord and try other chords after it. The one that sounds nicest is the first chord in your chorus.

 

That's my method when I get stuck.

[Edguy]

when im stuck with a song and dont find anything good, i look in my collection of ideas and see if i can use it in this song. Whenever you play something good or get an idea, just write it down no matter what.

Theory is a good thing too. Try find a chord progression and then a catchy melody.

Allways thing of what you would like to hear next as an audience.

 

and merry christmass:)

[svenBliss]

Dont force song writing either. Play chord progressions more often if you're playing just riffs, because building a whole song out of riffs is hard.

 

But don't force it, it will eventually click into place and you'll get the idea for a song really easily. Just take your time. The more you do it, the faster it will be when things 'click' into place.

[Vlodrak]

I've been playing piano for around 4 years now, and guitar for a couple weeks, and I guess It's just something that some people find natural. Don't force it though. I reckon the best chord progressions you can create are usually one's you find by accident. I'm around 13 and everyday I spend 2-3 hours spending time playing guitar and piano. I've only written 3 decent songs though. My most popular amongst my friends was one I made by finding a chord progression on piano that I liked and then dissected the chords and turned that proggressin into a riff. It sounds (and I don't like to brag) AWESOME!!!

I guess stuff like that helps then aswell. Also try taking a sequence of notes and playing it in a different way. For instance you could take the citizen erased chords and play them in the rythm of bliss. Then you can alter it to the way you like to make it sound better. Hope this helps, happy songwriting.

[Vlodrak]

since 1 year i try to write own songs in the style of muse, keane, coldplay, ratm and qotsa.

 

 

Take chords you like from their songs and play them in a different way maybe.

[jonnys777]

My method of writing goes:

 

Find something I care about. Whatever it may be, extract that feeling from myself and try to find chords or a riff. It's easier if you know how a lot of chords sound in your head anyway.

 

Play around with it. Make variations. Either know your keys or have some sort of key table nearby - this helps.

 

Try and build some structure, maybe experiment with some of the variations - i.e. try out an intro.

 

Always build on it, but don't be in a rush to get in finished. I've only "completed" one song in one sitting. Every other time it has been in stages.

 

That being said, a song is never finished in my mind, I always go back and change them a bit, add things in, take bits out and whatnot.

 

 

One of the problems I have is I tend to make songs sound too "full" before allowing for vocals and whatnot. What I found helped this, get some form of composing software, download a tab you know well (maybe a Muse one?), adjust the vocals to be muted. Listen to the song. I found that when I did that with a lot of songs it sounded very.... plain. Of course this might not be a problem for you

 

As for the whole thing about "theory limits creativity", meh it may be true to an extent, but you need to know enough. In the end creativity breaks through, I've done plenty of stupid stuff which ends up sounding pretty good.

 

Anyway, just keep at it and it'll come, good things take time as they say.

 

Good luck

[Jobby]

I always have huge difficulty with giving things a title, no matter what it is. Anyone got any tips or methods for thinking of one?

[Will_]

I always have huge difficulty with giving things a title, no matter what it is. Anyone got any tips or methods for thinking of one?

 

Follow the theme of the song's lyrics?

[Dave.]

I always have huge difficulty with giving things a title, no matter what it is. Anyone got any tips or methods for thinking of one?

 

If you want it to be more popular then take a line from the chorus if you just want a title that suits it then just write out your feelings as you listen/play it, that way you'll find a word that feelings those feelings.

[JJ]

My biggest flaw is writing song lyrics. I'm alright at writing music, but I can't write lyrics whatsoever. I'm a guitarist through and through but I find it easiest to write the music to songs on the keys instead. What about you guys? What instrument do you prefer to write music with?

 

inb4:

• triangle
  
• ukelele
  
• paper
  

[IntelligentAl]

I tend to write with an acoustic guitar then switch it over to electric.

 

But thats only because the acoustic is closer to my bed and I'm a lazy sod.

[Dave.]

Mostly jamming but sometimes I just fiddle about on piano and come up with something.

[Mr. ORANGE]

IMHO the best way of making a good chorus is to go with the vocals - try to feel some sort of melody change, some build-up from the verse to chorus - without melody (even on guitar or piano) it sometimes can sound a bit forced...I usually come up with riff and verse chords/sound without the vocal melody (but I'm also a singer) but the chorus usually comes with some sort of melody change in mind...

 

But the best way to write songs is to start with the melody - it's usually not that experimental as putting some not so common chord combinations together but it usually sounds good and catchy - then either plant some riff you already have into the song or just think of some...But I usually end up starting with the riff and harmony, though starting with vocals sounds IMHO better for the overall sound of the song...But it's hard as hell

[cheddatom]

Even though that was a pretty weird necro bump, I appreciate the post. I've been writing songs and I love the music, but when I come to sing over the top I hate it. I'm going to try starting with a vocal melody and then building on that, which seems to be a logical approach, and if it's approved by Mr Orange what can go wrong?

[Crowella]

Maybe my sarcasm detector is broken but starting with a melody is surely not the right way? Never done one that way, ever...

 

Usually for our stuff the order is:

Chord progressions, rhythm, melody, lead and added effects. Nothing is ever concrete though so we often go back and refine things.

 

To be serious, music theory is a lot of help in song writing. If you don't know what some chords are, the root notes, scales, key, etc; You're limiting yourself.

[cheddatom]

just because you've never done it doesn't make it wrong

 

In my opinion, the "average" person hears the melody above all other components of a song, unless it's some form of spoken word thing in which case the ear is probably drawn to the words (as in language rather than pitch). If i'm right, then the melody is more important than the rest of the song. It's only logical then to work around the melody.

[Crowella]

This is true and I wasn't targeting it. I should have said its maybe not the best way rather than not the right way.

[Lexical_Whale]

I wouldn't say either way is necessarily easier or more difficult. I've written songs starting with melodies and starting with just some chords or riffs before and it's always just depended on what sprung into my head first. I've tended to find that starting with a melody helps the other pieces fit into place much more easily as it'll tend to imply a particular rhythm, structure and set of chords (quite often you can hear what the 'right' chords are straight away but there's always alternatives that'll give a different tonality). Unless a chord sequence is reasonably simple I often find that it takes a bit more work to weave a melody around it without it sounding really pedestrian and in these cases a bit of music theory can be great as it means you might realise there are some interesting things you could try that you might not stumble upon by just thrashing out a melody by ear because they have a slightly more unusual sound (7th intervals, for example can be really cool for adding a bit of tension in before resolving it).

 

Horses for courses really.

[weezul]

1. listen to more music.

2. try to play it yourself, that is, don't use tabs, try and use your ear starting with some simple songs. You'll find you'll get much quicker at thinking of new chords.

3. listen to more music.

 

no one ever wrote anything original, first you gotta imitate before you can create, and that comes through training your ear and listening intently, it will benefit you much more than anything else.

 

if that sounds like too much work then here's a slower method:

[Will_]

1. listen to more music.

2. try to play it yourself, that is, don't use tabs, try and use your ear starting with some simple songs. You'll find you'll get much quicker at thinking of new chords.

3. listen to more music.

 

no one ever wrote anything original, first you gotta imitate before you can create, and that comes through training your ear and listening intently, it will benefit you much more than anything else.

 

if that sounds like too much work then here's a slower method:

 

That's hardly true

[weezul]

that was indeed a heavy-handed expression. not to be taken at face value, apologies

[Will_]

that was indeed a heavy-handed expression. not to be taken at face value, apologies

 

S'all good! The rest makes sense anyway.