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You have good points Adrienne, but he lives in the UK. The rules might be different there. I tried to buy tix Muse's show in South Africa once--they don't even let you buy if you're from out of the country!

 

Well he also said he has a Visa Electron that wouldn't work. That's because it is not accepted in the US as a method of payment.

 

Wow really? You can't see a South African show unless you live there? :eek:

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I think if you are going to have that kind of attitude, it won't work. We're not petitioning a ticket company after all, we are petitioning a band to consider other alternatives. There have been a few bands in the past who sell their own tickets, so its not like its impossible to do. Muse are at a point where they can actually reconsider ticketing resale options without worrying about how it will affect them financially. Also, if they buck the trend, maybe other artists will do so as well. You never know where it could lead, you just have to use your imagination and hope for the best. I do think letter writing is more effective as persuasive argument speaks a bit more than just signatures, but there are people who won't write letters cuz they don't feel they are able to express themselves very well that way, or they're just lazy. An online petition allows those people to participate without much effort at all. Maybe it IS futile, but you never know until you try, and certainly having a pessimistic attitude to the point of not even wanting to try is automatic failure. I would rather have tried and failed than not attempted to change something this retarded (ticketmaster etc) at all.

 

Also, I really do believe Muse are conscientious of their fanbase. That's why they can have big shows and not price gouge their audience by charging 110 dollars for a nose bleed ticket ala U2. So I do believe, if enough people show cause for concern they may be motivated to find a better way to conduct their business. Without their fans they don't have a career, so it IS important that their fans be able to access shows, and afford them as well.

 

Oh no, you misunderstand me - sorry, I didn't make myself very clear :facepalm: I know it would be aimed at the band, and I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, but under the surface, it's a lot, lot more difficult than the band simply selling the tickets their own way. Look how big the ticket companies websites are, and how often they crash during a popular bands sale - the band would need a fantastic server to deal with demand, as well people working on the website, people on phones, they'd need people to sort out fees, sort mail, etc etc. I genuinely do think it's a good idea, I just also genuinely don't think there's anything they can do about it.

 

A big problem is that despite the tickets being resold at such high prices, people will, and DO, buy them - so fans do get to access the shows (please don't take that the wrong way, I cannot think of a better way to word it :facepalm:). It's not neccessarily a matter of finding a better ticket seller, it's more a matter of dealing with people who do buy scalped tickets. Scalpers only do what they do because there's the demand - if there was no demand for scalped tickets, they wouldn't do it, and therefore the sales would be so, so much better.

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Well he also said he has a Visa Electron that wouldn't work. That's because it is not accepted in the US as a method of payment.

 

Wow really? You can't see a South African show unless you live there? :eek:[/quote

 

You had to have a credit card/bank account in South Africa, and well, shit, my bank is in the US. :p All my credit cards are US based. I would have had to have someone buy me a ticket and hope they don't screw in the end. I was working with someone from the local radio station, but then I changed my mind about the trip so things didn't pan out.

 

Also, in the Visa Electron case, Muse could use a ticketing agency that isn't based in the US and then that would solve this dude's problem with the Visa Electron. At least I think it would.

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Well he also said he has a Visa Electron that wouldn't work. That's because it is not accepted in the US as a method of payment.

 

Wow really? You can't see a South African show unless you live there? :eek:[/quote

 

You had to have a credit card/bank account in South Africa, and well, shit, my bank is in the US. :p All my credit cards are US based. I would have had to have someone buy me a ticket and hope they don't screw in the end. I was working with someone from the local radio station, but then I changed my mind about the trip so things didn't pan out.

 

Also, in the Visa Electron case, Muse could use a ticketing agency that isn't based in the US and then that would solve this dude's problem with the Visa Electron. At least I think it would.

 

It would probably be very tricky to have a system that accepts all forms/methods of payment. That would definitely be ideal though!

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The reason why they don't accept Visa Electron Debit is because the full amount is required to be in the account before a purchase is made (it also says it's not available in the US). Chase requires that the vendor have the capability to check this before letting the consumer make the purchase. A lot of vendors do not accept this method of payment because they don't have the capability to check the amount in the account before swiping.

 

Yes, I know that. But they don't do prepaid cards over here, and a debit card is all I and many other people (old & young) own, so if they did do paperless tickets, what are we all to do?

 

Well, you are in the UK though. I think we are pressing for things to change in the US more than the UK. I don't know, do you guys have the same problem with your regional ticketing agency selling half the tickets out the backdoor to scalpers who turn around and chuck them on stubhub for 5x the face value? I ask sincerely.

 

When I bought tix for Wembley in 2007 I didn't have a problem with the ticketing agency at all, so I am curious as to what your experiences have been.

 

We have problems, but people still buy scalped tickets, so. . .yeah.

 

As I have said, they can use a prepaid credit card which can be used for online purchases.

 

It's that simple.

 

Which is all well and good until you factor in other issues. . .if people can't get hold of one, if people don't have money at the time, if people are coming from another country.

 

You have good points Adrienne, but he lives in the UK. The rules might be different there. I tried to buy tix Muse's show in South Africa once--they don't even let you buy if you're from out of the country!

 

Well he also said he has a Visa Electron that wouldn't work. That's because it is not accepted in the US as a method of payment.

 

Wow really? You can't see a South African show unless you live there? :eek:

 

She ;)

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Yes, I know that. But they don't do prepaid cards over here, and a debit card is all I and many other people (old & young) own, so if they did do paperless tickets, what are we all to do?

 

 

 

We have problems, but people still buy scalped tickets, so. . .yeah.

 

 

 

Which is all well and good until you factor in other issues. . .if people can't get hold of one, if people don't have money at the time, if people are coming from another country.

 

 

 

 

 

She ;)

 

She, sorry! :)

 

I'm surprised a debit card won't work. I guess if you have a debit card that doesn't have a Visa or Mastercard symbol on it, then it won't work for online purchases? Hm...well...they are doing paperless for Miley Cyrus...there's got to be some way for kids to be able to attend without their parents. :musesign:

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Oh no, you misunderstand me - sorry, I didn't make myself very clear :facepalm: I know it would be aimed at the band, and I do agree with a lot of what you're saying, but under the surface, it's a lot, lot more difficult than the band simply selling the tickets their own way. Look how big the ticket companies websites are, and how often they crash during a popular bands sale - the band would need a fantastic server to deal with demand, as well people working on the website, people on phones, they'd need people to sort out fees, sort mail, etc etc. I genuinely do think it's a good idea, I just also genuinely don't think there's anything they can do about it.

 

A big problem is that despite the tickets being resold at such high prices, people will, and DO, buy them - so fans do get to access the shows (please don't take that the wrong way, I cannot think of a better way to word it :facepalm:). It's not neccessarily a matter of finding a better ticket seller, it's more a matter of dealing with people who do buy scalped tickets. Scalpers only do what they do because there's the demand - if there was no demand for scalped tickets, they wouldn't do it, and therefore the sales would be so, so much better.

 

Well, they could just contract the service out to someone who has all that. I mean, that is why a band sells tix through ticketmaster at all. Ticketmaster promises the sky, and if they didn't sell their inventory to sclapers out the back door, I'd say they deliver for the most part. Muse tried to do alternative ticketing using concertmaps, but they've since grown beyond concertmaps. There are bound to be other firms out there who can do better, just have to shop around. Or maybe they could invest money into something like concertmaps. You never know. I do agree that agencies like ticketmaster are fucking huge and hard to battle with, but its not impossible.

 

I also agree about scalped tickets. Its a bit like, "why do americans shop at walmart?" despite the fact walmart is notorious for worker's rights abuses. Well, people shop there because its fucking cheap. People buy from scalpers cuz they can, and they're willing to pay the price. In both situations neither consumer base think very much of the impact of their purchase on the surrounding community, or if they do, they don't care. In any case, we can't change consumer habits, but we can change the supply that scalpers have. Ultimately, I think people all round would be happier if they only had to pay market value, not an inflated value. So even those people who buy from scalpers would be happy fi we altered the market wether through different supply methods, or legislation.

 

I do understand what you are saying though--that the ticket agencies are too big for us to make a difference. That can be said about many different situations the world over. And as I said before, mabye our efforts will end up being futile in the end, but on the other hand, you never know what a small spark of defiance could lead to, and I really do believe it is better to have tried and failed than not to try at all.

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She, sorry! :)

 

I'm surprised a debit card won't work. I guess if you have a debit card that doesn't have a Visa or Mastercard symbol on it, then it won't work for online purchases? Hm...well...they are doing paperless for Miley Cyrus...there's got to be some way for kids to be able to attend without their parents. :musesign:

 

Debit cards can't work b/c of the pin number. You need a CheckCard which works like a debit and credit card. I have one of those and it's so convenient :awesome:

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She, sorry! :)

 

I'm surprised a debit card won't work. I guess if you have a debit card that doesn't have a Visa or Mastercard symbol on it, then it won't work for online purchases? Hm...well...they are doing paperless for Miley Cyrus...there's got to be some way for kids to be able to attend without their parents. :musesign:

 

Heh, 's'alright.

 

It generally depends on the debit card in question. Electrons are certainly the most arsey, but oddly enough, seetickets accepts them without any issues.

 

I think the general audience for Miley Cyrus is vastly different to Muse - I daresay the very vast majority of kids there would of the age where they wouldn't be allowed to attend without their parents :LOL:

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Heh, 's'alright.

 

It generally depends on the debit card in question. Electrons are certainly the most arsey, but oddly enough, seetickets accepts them without any issues.

 

I think the general audience for Miley Cyrus is vastly different to Muse - I daresay the very vast majority of kids there would of the age where they wouldn't be allowed to attend without their parents :LOL:

 

Probably, hahaha.

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We have problems, but people still buy scalped tickets, so. . .yeah.

 

Then we just need to change the supply method to change scalper inventory. :) Simple economics. :)

 

Which is all well and good until you factor in other issues. . .if people can't get hold of one, if people don't have money at the time, if people are coming from another country.

 

And you bring up good points here. I have the same concerns about paperless ticketing as well. But I think we aren't pushing for paperless ticketing only so much as requesting a rethink of how business is done in general. As I've said before paperless ticketing is but one solution to the madness, I know we can all think of more. Like, why can't people buy tickets in person anymore? That should be an option. I mean, I know you *can* buy tickets in person, but its more of a hassle, when it should be just as easy apart from traveling to the agency onesself. Phone sales are another issue.

 

She ;)

 

My bad. ;) I know what its like to be confused for a dude on the forums though, lol. :)

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Well, they could just contract the service out to someone who has all that. I mean, that is why a band sells tix through ticketmaster at all. Ticketmaster promises the sky, and if they didn't sell their inventory to sclapers out the back door, I'd say they deliver for the most part. Muse tried to do alternative ticketing using concertmaps, but they've since grown beyond concertmaps. There are bound to be other firms out there who can do better, just have to shop around. Or maybe they could invest money into something like concertmaps. You never know. I do agree that agencies like ticketmaster are fucking huge and hard to battle with, but its not impossible.

 

I also agree about scalped tickets. Its a bit like, "why do americans shop at walmart?" despite the fact walmart is notorious for worker's rights abuses. Well, people shop there because its fucking cheap. People buy from scalpers cuz they can, and they're willing to pay the price. In both situations neither consumer base think very much of the impact of their purchase on the surrounding community, or if they do, they don't care. In any case, we can't change consumer habits, but we can change the supply that scalpers have. Ultimately, I think people all round would be happier if they only had to pay market value, not an inflated value. So even those people who buy from scalpers would be happy fi we altered the market wether through different supply methods, or legislation.

 

I do understand what you are saying though--that the ticket agencies are too big for us to make a difference. That can be said about many different situations the world over. And as I said before, mabye our efforts will end up being futile in the end, but on the other hand, you never know what a small spark of defiance could lead to, and I really do believe it is better to have tried and failed than not to try at all.

 

They certainly could do, and they have done that, to some effect, here in the UK - tickets were sold on ticketmaster, seetickets and ticketline. However, I don't really know how many major ticket companies you really have over there. . .it could also be to do with the record company, as I doubt the band themselves really have the final say in this, as much as it pains me to say so.

 

Exactly! As long there's demand, there will be supply - be it shopping (Walmart) or tickets (hello scalpers). And now that you say it, you have rung a bell in my mind - I'm almost certain that there was some discussion amongst the 'higher-ups' a while ago about not banning the resale of tickets, but more banning the high pricing. Blanket price on all tickets, whether you get them from scarletmist, stubhub or ebay. It'd be nice, but sadly. . .I can't see it happening any time in the near future.

 

I'm sorry, I've missed this whole conversation...what's up, Allie?

 

I seem to have started beef :LOL:

 

vibrantXhearts I didn't mean to accuse you of not looking at the bigger picture in a malicious way. :$

 

I understand that you are, but you're just concerned about the younger crowd. :happy:

 

Nah, 's'alright :) It's tough being a young music fan!

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They certainly could do, and they have done that, to some effect, here in the UK - tickets were sold on ticketmaster, seetickets and ticketline. However, I don't really know how many major ticket companies you really have over there. . .it could also be to do with the record company, as I doubt the band themselves really have the final say in this, as much as it pains me to say so.

 

Exactly! As long there's demand, there will be supply - be it shopping (Walmart) or tickets (hello scalpers). And now that you say it, you have rung a bell in my mind - I'm almost certain that there was some discussion amongst the 'higher-ups' a while ago about not banning the resale of tickets, but more banning the high pricing. Blanket price on all tickets, whether you get them from scarletmist, stubhub or ebay. It'd be nice, but sadly. . .I can't see it happening any time in the near future.

 

 

 

I seem to have started beef :LOL:

 

 

 

Nah, 's'alright :) It's tough being a young music fan!

 

Bah, I worded that wrong. I changed the wording (scroll up!)...It's gotta be pretty hard being a younger fan =/

 

You're gettin older every minute! You'll have your freedom soon :stongue:

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Probably, hahaha.

 

Bless 'em :happy:

 

Then we just need to change the supply method to change scalper inventory. :) Simple economics. :)

 

I just said it above, but I'll repeat it here - put a blanket price on ALL resold tickets. Nothing above face value + fees. You'll still get a large amount of tickets being sold on, but none of the icky pricing.

 

And you bring up good points here. I have the same concerns about paperless ticketing as well. But I think we aren't pushing for paperless ticketing only so much as requesting a rethink of how business is done in general. As I've said before paperless ticketing is but one solution to the madness, I know we can all think of more. Like, why can't people buy tickets in person anymore? That should be an option. I mean, I know you *can* buy tickets in person, but its more of a hassle, when it should be just as easy apart from traveling to the agency onesself. Phone sales are another issue.[/quote

 

Oh no, I absolutely agree - there's definitely more than just one solution. I think the problem with buying tickets in person is travel though - I don't quite know how it's done over there, but here you can generally only buy tickets at the venue, not a ticket outlet. Like, for the O2 tickets, you could only buy them at the O2 box office. Phone sales should definitely be made simpler - a lot of the time, they're a major hassle.

 

My bad. ;) I know what its like to be confused for a dude on the forums though, lol. :)

 

:chuckle: No worries!

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They certainly could do, and they have done that, to some effect, here in the UK - tickets were sold on ticketmaster, seetickets and ticketline. However, I don't really know how many major ticket companies you really have over there. . .it could also be to do with the record company, as I doubt the band themselves really have the final say in this, as much as it pains me to say so.

 

I don't know, they seem to have control over a lot of what they do and how its done. Also, I suspect Muse will leave Warner when their contract ends. Nothing like getting the ball rolling now so when/if they do leave they'll have some great ideas motivated by fan involvement. ;)

 

 

Exactly! As long there's demand, there will be supply - be it shopping (Walmart) or tickets (hello scalpers). And now that you say it, you have rung a bell in my mind - I'm almost certain that there was some discussion amongst the 'higher-ups' a while ago about not banning the resale of tickets, but more banning the high pricing. Blanket price on all tickets, whether you get them from scarletmist, stubhub or ebay. It'd be nice, but sadly. . .I can't see it happening any time in the near future.

 

Its a good idea, but would require legislation to enforce. I think that would be easier to enforce though than some things. I mean, its pretty easy to spot someone selling a ticket higher than face value + fees, and thus remove their ad, or find them and lay charges against. Its not impossible though. I mean, we have legislation against scalping already even in MI where its illegal to use software to buy up lots of tickets...its just that the laws are somewhat unenforceable. A law like what you're suggesting I see as easy to enforce however.

 

 

Anyway, regardless of what the solution is or the final out come, I think its worth getting in contact with the band/management, and/or doing an online petition.

 

Shit we coudl just all @muse on twitter about it. :LOL:

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God my head hurts after reading all that. Don't think I can leave a constructive comment.

 

Um...don't think paperless tickets will work. It's just not that 'simple' guys. Plus, you may need to sell them on to others if you can't make it, paperless would make this impossible if you do not have the original card etc etc

 

I also don't see any harm in a petition, Allie. If you don't think it'll work, that's cool, you don't have to sign it, but there is no harm in trying. :)

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I don't know, they seem to have control over a lot of what they do and how its done. Also, I suspect Muse will leave Warner when their contract ends. Nothing like getting the ball rolling now so when/if they do leave they'll have some great ideas motivated by fan involvement. ;)

 

Yeah, they definitely do have a lot of control, but I don't think they really have much say in how/where tickets are sold. . .seems like more of a record company choice than a band choice :erm: You never know, I could be wrong. But yeah, "we want Warners out" :LOL: Oh, the memories of that phrase.

 

Its a good idea, but would require legislation to enforce. I think that would be easier to enforce though than some things. I mean, its pretty easy to spot someone selling a ticket higher than face value + fees, and thus remove their ad, or find them and lay charges against. Its not impossible though. I mean, we have legislation against scalping already even in MI where its illegal to use software to buy up lots of tickets...its just that the laws are somewhat unenforceable. A law like what you're suggesting I see as easy to enforce however.

 

 

Anyway, regardless of what the solution is or the final out come, I think its worth getting in contact with the band/management, and/or doing an online petition.

 

Shit we coudl just all @muse on twitter about it. :LOL:

 

I think that's why the idea was dropped over here in the end - they knew it would require legislation, and in the end, they just couldn't be bothered :LOL:

 

Twitter <3 Very handy :awesome:

 

God my head hurts after reading all that. Don't think I can leave a constructive comment.

 

Um...don't think paperless tickets will work. It's just not that 'simple' guys. Plus, you may need to sell them on to others if you can't make it, paperless would make this impossible if you do not have the original card etc etc

 

I also don't see any harm in a petition, Allie. If you don't think it'll work, that's cool, you don't have to sign it, but there is no harm in trying. :)

 

What on earth did I start :LOL:

 

Nahh, that's fair enough - I didn't mean that you shouldn't try at all, and if you all want to try it then you should! It's unlikely, but you never know what might happen.

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God my head hurts after reading all that. Don't think I can leave a constructive comment.

 

Um...don't think paperless tickets will work. It's just not that 'simple' guys. Plus, you may need to sell them on to others if you can't make it, paperless would make this impossible if you do not have the original card etc etc

 

I also don't see any harm in a petition, Allie. If you don't think it'll work, that's cool, you don't have to sign it, but there is no harm in trying. :)

 

I know, it was pretty intense there for a minute.

 

Agree, re paperless, but I think I've advocated that there are other options out there enough that I won't give my speil. ;)

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So there is one MAJOR problem with Muse magically inventing their own system to sell tickets. The large majority of the venues they are playing have exclusive contracts with Live Nation to be the promoter of the event. So the band cannot perform a show at that venue without going through Live Nation. Live Nation uses Ticketmaster or their own website to sell Tickets. Muse could choose to use paperless tickets but they have not. This could be for any number of reasons. Maybe it cuts into the bands profit per show. Maybe they just don't care. Maybe they didn't realize they could do it. Maybe they are feeding tickets (through their management) to resellers and increasing their profit a little (or a lot). Who knows. The bottom line is that their are a lot of hands in the pot that get tickets (usually good seats) and can choose to do with them what they want. It seems that lots of these tickets end on reseller websites. As I stated in another thread, there is not one band on the face of the planet that sells all tickets to a show by themselves (at least when it comes to shows this size). Yes, Pearl Jam sells tickets through their fan club, but this is only their 10% allotment. They also have a lot of bargaining power. They also tried to go without using Ticketmaster (nearly 20 years ago when Ticketmaster was much less of a monopoly) and it failed miserably. Bottom line is that because of the money involved, unless an artist makes a giant stink and is a thorn in the side of Live Nation and Ticketmaster, nothing is going to change.

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