1984=United States of Eurasia

[CarrieB]

The marching boots in "Intro" are also slightly referencing 1984, Winston talks about the "dull rhythmic pattern of marching boots.." during a song that was being played on the telescreen.

 

I'm too much of a nerd. Seriously. It's an issue.

 

Again, long before Matt re-read 1984.

[spark_]

But there's loads of references as real society is compared to that depicted in 1984.

 

Not really, no. If Matt intended to make it a deliberate overture then he has missed the point of the book (which is a very common thing, granted).

[CarrieB]

Not really, no. If Matt intended to make it a deliberate overture then he has missed the point of the book (which is a very common thing, granted).

 

How do you mean? I can't see how he has missed the point of the book exactly. I'm interested. What is the point of the book as you see it?

[spark_]

How do you mean? I can't see how he has missed the point of the book exactly.

 

Totalitarian dystopia =/= 1984. There is much more to the book then that and I don't see too much evidence of this in the Resistance. Obviously there are superficial references in USoE etc, but that's the point - superficial. As I said, if he tried to make a 1984-themed album he has failed entirely (I personally don't think he tried to do that at all)

[CarrieB]

Totalitarian dystopia =/= 1984. There is much more to the book then that and I don't see too much evidence of this in the Resistance. Obviously there are superficial references in USoE etc, but that's the point - superficial. As I said, if he tried to make a 1984-themed album he has failed entirely (I personally don't think he tried to do that at all)

 

I'm not suggesting he was making a 1984 themed album, just that there are references and I don't see them as being superficial references. I'm interested in what aspects of the book you are referring to which aren't referenced.

[spark_]

I'm not suggesting he was making a 1984 themed album, just that there are references and I don't see them as being superficial references. I'm interested in what aspects of the book you are referring to which aren't referenced.

 

Newspeak. Only the most important one in terms of what the point Orwell was trying to make (and had been making for the last decade).

 

Doublethink is another, but that's a whole 'nother matter.

[Hat]

Totalitarian dystopia =/= 1984. There is much more to the book then that and I don't see too much evidence of this in the Resistance. Obviously there are superficial references in USoE etc, but that's the point - superficial. As I said, if he tried to make a 1984-themed album he has failed entirely (I personally don't think he tried to do that at all)

I think he tried to make a 1984-inspired album, there's a big difference.

[spark_]

I think he tried to make a 1984-inspired album, there's a big difference.

But did he really? There are only really references to 1984 in particular in USoE, and some in Resistance. Two songs...

[Hat]

But did he really? There are only really references to 1984 in particular in USoE, and some in Resistance. Two songs...

Well, I still think that 1984 made him come up with lots of the ideas from the album, even if they can't be directly linked to it.

[CarrieB]

But did he really? There are only really references to 1984 in particular in USoE, and some in Resistance. Two songs...

 

Don't forget Uprising, which probably has the strongest references.

 

As for Newspeak:

 

"The PR transmissions will resume"

 

It's not exactly the same, but the media use soundbites which reduces complex stories and issues into a few lines. It's a similar kind of thing.

 

And doublethink. Think of United States of Eurasia, it's saying two things at once. On the one hand it's the idea of an end to war through nations becoming united and on the other it's implying that it would result in war. I don't know whether that was intentional but it's a headfuck.

 

It takes opening your mind to the gist. To be inspired by something doesn't mean that it has to use direct words.

[spark_]

Don't forget Uprising, which probably has the strongest references.

 

As for Newspeak:

 

"The PR transmissions will resume"

 

It's not exactly the same, but the media use soundbites which reduces complex stories and issues into a few lines. It's a similar kind of thing.

 

I'd disagree with that, Newspeak represents something far more insidious - the stripping or manipulation of meaning of individual words (there is a massive irony, in fact, in the way Newspeak has been constructed but one needs to know more about Orwell's other work to see that).

 

Do I expect to see this in a pop music album? Hell no. But it is one of the defining features of 1984 and what sets it out from your average dystopia. I mean, propaganda (which is what that lyrics is about) is kinda... common.

 

And Matt himself has said Uprising was inspired more by recent events such as the G8 protests.

 

And doublethink. Think of United States of Eurasia, it's saying two things at once. On the one hand it's the idea of an end to war through nations becoming united and on the other it's implying that it would result in war. I don't know whether that was intentional but it's a headfuck.

 

Wait... where does the war end?

 

It takes opening your mind to the gist. To be inspired by something doesn't mean that it has to use direct words.

 

Course not, but you have to have, as you say, the gist. And there is not that much of it there.

[haze015]

Don't forget Uprising, which probably has the strongest references.

 

As for Newspeak:

 

"The PR transmissions will resume"

 

It's not exactly the same, but the media use soundbites which reduces complex stories and issues into a few lines. It's a similar kind of thing.

 

That's not Newspeak.

[CarrieB]

That's not Newspeak.

 

It's not specifically Newspeak but soundbiting is about reducing the complexity of issues by using fewer words to describe them in order to influence thought, so there are similar connotations. The phrase I picked out does not say that directly but it interlinks to it in my mind in the context of what propaganda is like and the rest of the lyrics, which are about types of indirect control.

[spark_]

It's not specifically Newspeak but soundbiting is about reducing the complexity of issues by using fewer words to describe them in order to influence thought, so there are similar connotations. The phrase I picked out does not say that directly but it interlinks to it in my mind in the context of what propaganda is like and the rest of the lyrics, which are about types of indirect control.

But that's not Newspeak either.

 

Newspeak is not about propaganda. EDIT: In fact a good argument could be made that Newspeak is fundamentally the opposite of propaganda as it is understood by basically everyone.

[dontask]

I think given that Matt has stated that it was inspired by 1984 coupled with the mention of "thought police" and "Eurasia" and the general themes of the album it would be stupid to say that Resistance wasnt heavily inspired by 1984. Its also inspired by modern Britain and a variety of things. Shades of 1984 could arguably be found in Uprising, Undisclosed Desires, Guiding Light and Unnatural Selection aswell.

[CarrieB]

And Matt himself has said Uprising was inspired more by recent events such as the G8 protests.

 

Yes but you are assuming that would mean he was compartmentalising his mind and just thinking about the G8 protests. The point is, I assume, that those kinds of events, made him think about the relevance of a book like 1984 to present society.

 

 

Wait... where does the war end?

 

 

Well that's probably about the time where Chopin begins with children's laughter in the newly formed United States of Eurasia before the aircraft can be heard. But you are right, when does the war actually ever really stop? The point is that the protagonists are giving up on their cause because the wars cannot be won, and as I see it the USoE is seen as a positive movement towards peace or at least a stand against American supremism (as the song was based on America wanting to produce war between Eurasian nations so USoE is the opposite of that) though remember that in the treasure hunt America was also welcomed to this united world.

 

That's how I see it anyway.

[CarrieB]

But that's not Newspeak either.

 

Newspeak is not about propaganda. EDIT: In fact a good argument could be made that Newspeak is fundamentally the opposite of propaganda as it is understood by basically everyone.

 

So how is it opposite? Soundbites surely do a similar thing.

 

Taken from wikipaedia.

 

Before the actual term "sound bite" had been coined, Mark Twain described the concept as "a minimum of sound to a maximum of sense."

[spark_]

So how is it opposite? Soundbites surely do a similar thing.

 

I suggest you read 1984 again. Much, much closer.

 

These soundbites you refer to are designed to utilize and magnify ambiguities in language to obscure meaning and to manipulate a person's subconscious political thought.

 

Newspeak is designed to destroy ambiguities in language, leaving only absolute inviolate meaning dictated by the Party - in effect, destroying the very thing the soundbites seek to manipulate.

[CarrieB]

I suggest you read 1984 again. Much, much closer.

 

These soundbites you refer to are designed to utilize and magnify ambiguities in language to obscure meaning and to manipulate a person's subconscious political thought.

 

Newspeak is designed to destroy ambiguities in language, leaving only absolute inviolate meaning dictated by the Party - in effect, destroying the very thing the soundbites seek to manipulate.

 

No, sorry I don't agree with your argument. The end result is the same. Both are used in order to manipulate. It's just that Newspeak is an exaggeration. 1984 is a satire afterall.

 

I suppose you could say it's kind of doublethink to say that restricting language reduces ambiguity!

[Novus Dies]

Has anyone read the book 1984 by George Orwell? If so, did anyone notice the huge connection with the song United States of Eurasia?

 

We knew this a year ago, the whole album is basically a concept of it. Hopefully next time he reads a better book

[Riveon]

"I re-read Eclipse and this time a lot more stood out to me..."

[haze015]

No, sorry I don't agree with your argument. The end result is the same. Both are used in order to manipulate. It's just that Newspeak is an exaggeration. 1984 is a satire afterall.

 

I suppose you could say it's kind of doublethink to say that restricting language reduces ambiguity!

 

They are different ways of manipulating.

[TheThoughtPolice.]

I'm not suggesting he was making a 1984 themed album, just that there are references and I don't see them as being superficial references. I'm interested in what aspects of the book you are referring to which aren't referenced.

 

I agree with you entirely. I don't think Matt intended the album to be about 1984 in itself, there's just a few references to Orwell's classic in some of the songs.

[Hat]

I agree with you entirely. I don't think Matt intended the album to be about 1984 in itself, there's just a few references to Orwell's classic in some of the songs.

 

Calm down, seriously.

Who isn't calm?

 

I still want to know why Intro would be inspired by 1984.

[CarrieB]

I agree with you entirely. I don't think Matt intended the album to be about 1984 in itself, there's just a few references to Orwell's classic in some of the songs.

 

Calm down, seriously.

 

I am calm, honestly! I just find this sort of stuff interesting.