ISPs

[niky_e]

They're all amazing!

L's is better Niky, you know it!

 

maybe in hindsight Still laughed more at the song.

[Popey]

i thought matts argument was to compensate artists for exactly that

 

I think his only strengthens a new artist's support on record labels though. Otherwise getting into this system of digitally tagging media would be quite hard for someone.

[Novus Dies]

Sort of like mass internet radio. More like an individual juke box where you stream music for free but it's peppered with ads between every other few tracks and the ads aired to you are based on your listening habits.

 

Then if you don't want ads then you have the option of paying a subscription to the service to get rid of them and continue to stream or you actually purchase the song or album and own it without any DRM restrictions.

 

Much simpler and with the rise of smart phones perfectly achievable through the use of 3G services and applications.

 

A lot of ideas can be created, but many forums where professionals post tend to grumble a lot and shout ''you damn punk kids''

 

sadly it's our generation that is the only one that seems to want to clean it up.

[kev]

Sort of like mass internet radio. More like an individual juke box where you stream music for free but it's peppered with ads between every other few tracks and the ads aired to you are based on your listening habits.

 

Then if you don't want ads then you have the option of paying a subscription to the service to get rid of them and continue to stream or you actually purchase the song or album and own it without any DRM restrictions.

 

Much simpler and with the rise of smart phones perfectly achievable through the use of 3G services and applications.

 

ha this sounds like a tele marketing that'll end with "imagine this service of the future, wouldn't it be great? imagine it today: spotify"

[PoisonMeteor]

Sort of like mass internet radio. More like an individual juke box where you stream music for free but it's peppered with ads between every other few tracks and the ads aired to you are based on your listening habits.

 

Then if you don't want ads then you have the option of paying a subscription to the service to get rid of them and continue to stream or you actually purchase the song or album and own it without any DRM restrictions.

 

Much simpler and with the rise of smart phones perfectly achievable through the use of 3G services and applications.

 

Sounds like Last.fm radio, only without the adverts. I wouldn't mind a service like that.

[kev]

I think his only strengthens a new artist's support on record labels though. Otherwise getting into this system of digitally tagging media would be quite hard for someone.

 

if it was easy what i'd do is make an album of kev rock and then rename them "muse teignmouth beach sessions" and litter them around the internet and drop clues. then watch the £££'s roll in

[alternaterealities]

I have no idea what he's talking about but felt the need to post, lol.

 

 

+1

[Mozza]

Under your proposals Popey, can Muse songs be interrupted by 'Compare the Meerkat' adverts?

[Spittle]

if it was easy what i'd do is make an album of kev rock and then rename them "muse teignmouth beach sessions" and litter them around the internet and drop clues. then watch the £££'s roll in

 

"lol whats all this crap? I'm glad muse dont sound like this now!"

kev - "muahaha foools!"

*rolls in money*

[Spittle]

Under your proposals Popey, can Muse songs be interrupted by 'Compare the Meerkat' adverts?

 

Simples.

[Popey]

ha this sounds like a tele marketing that'll end with "imagine this service of the future, wouldn't it be great? imagine it today: spotify"

 

 

But for srs it will work! And I promise it's not a pyramid scheme...it's more a trapezoid

 

Sounds like Last.fm radio, only without the adverts. I wouldn't mind a service like that.

 

Precisely, we have one customer!

 

if it was easy what i'd do is make an album of kev rock and then rename them "muse teignmouth beach sessions" and litter them around the internet and drop clues. then watch the £££'s roll in

 

[kev]

 

But for srs it will work! And I promise it's not a pyramid scheme...it's more a trapezoid

 

 

 

Precisely, we have one customer!

 

 

 

how's it different to spotify though?

[Popey]

Under your proposals Popey, can Muse songs be interrupted by 'Compare the Meerkat' adverts?

 

I assumed that was a given.

 

M-M-M-M-M-M-MASH UP!

[Egeli]

Replies to thread

 

1) How the hell did Matt get in here? I thought he didn't remember his password haha!

2) I think he's got some good points and ideas, but I can't really see them working, there are so many things online that is legal, but that takes up a lot of "internet space"

(such as their very own streaming media player on their website)

But I do get both him and Lily's point about file sharing killing the music industry, because of all the people who do NOT buy CDs when they can get the material for free online.

BUT:

3)I agree that it's a shame both him and Lily missed the very important part that the people who download most music illegaly, also buy most CDs in the shops.

Personally I would never have bought any of my Muse CDs without having downloaded some of their material from piratebay at first, because the first time I heard them was when MTV showed the SMBH video.

 

I think we have to look for other solutions, i.e being able to download some of the material to preview it first or maybe getting free material similar to what you buy when purchasing a CD (or DVD or video game or anything) <- not very well thought through, just the first thing that came to my mind right now.

[Guest QueenOfNerds]

Under your proposals Popey, can Muse songs be interrupted by 'Compare the Meerkat' adverts?

 

Oh god

[Novus Dies]

Muse's album the Resistance has been downloaded about 10,000 times on TPB.

 

Let's do some basic maths

 

10k+ mulitplied by £7.99 if they got the equivalent on Itunes.

 

That works out at over £80,000 (considering I rounded the amount of downloads down) lost if a download = a sale (which some argue is right, some argue isn't) let's not.

 

now say ISPs compensated someone for this downloading that took place...say even £1 per download of the album

 

that's £10,000 which is a good amount of money for a band wanting to start producing an album if ISPs would actually take some responsibility for the services they provide.

 

May not be a lot to a major act but at least it's something...if those 10,000 people went and bought the album legally MANY artists would not even get £10,000 in the contracts they are currently on.

[Popey]

how's it different to spotify though?

 

It's not. It's just Spotify direct from the record labels themselves so they garner more profits and with more involvement and investment in the ad sales.

[Ril]

Replies to thread

 

1) How the hell did Matt get in here? I thought he didn't remember his password haha!

2) I think he's got some good points and ideas, but I can't really see them working, there are so many things online that is legal, but that takes up a lot of "internet space"

(such as their very own streaming media player on their website)

But I do get both him and Lily's point about file sharing killing the music industry, because of all the people who do NOT buy CDs when they can get the material for free online.

BUT:

3)I agree that it's a shame both him and Lily missed the very important part that the people who download most music illegaly, also buy most CDs in the shops.

Personally I would never have bought any of my Muse CDs without having downloaded some of their material from piratebay at first, because the first time I heard them was when MTV showed the SMBH video.

 

I think we have to look for other solutions, i.e being able to download some of the material to preview it first or maybe getting free material similar to what you buy when purchasing a CD (or DVD or video game or anything) <- not very well thought through, just the first thing that came to my mind right now.

 

 

But you're not addressing the important points there. What did you think of Mozza's song? And do you have a flag? [/eddie izzard]

[Popey]

Muse's album the Resistance has been downloaded about 10,000 times on TPB.

 

Let's do some basic maths

 

10k mulitplied by £7.99 if they got the equivalent on Itunes.

 

That works out at over £80,000 lost if a download = a sale (which some argue is right, some argue isn't) let's not.

 

now say ISPs compensated someone for this downloading that took place...say even £1 per download of the album

 

that's £10,000 which is a good amount of money for a band wanting to start producing an album if ISPs would actually take some responsibility for the services they provide.

 

May not be a lot to a major act but at least it's something

 

I don't think anyone's in denial that piracy hurts new artists. But there are better ways than taxing ISPs to help them out.

[kev]

Muse's album the Resistance has been downloaded about 10,000 times on TPB.

 

Let's do some basic maths

 

10k mulitplied by £7.99 if they got the equivalent on Itunes.

 

That works out at over £80,000 lost if a download = a sale (which some argue is right, some argue isn't) let's not.

 

now say ISPs compensated someone for this downloading that took place...say even £1 per download of the album

 

that's £10,000 which is a good amount of money for a band wanting to start producing an album if ISPs would actually take some responsibility for the services they provide.

 

May not be a lot to a major act but at least it's something

 

flaws to that:

 

of those 10,000 you can't know how many people would buy it legally if the illegal alternative wasnt there, i'm sure it's safe to assume it's a substantial proportion though

 

there are then those of that 10,000 who've bought the album anyway (particuarly true if this is one of the leaks)

 

then how many of those 10,000 wouldn't find a un isp monitored method to get the material if they were due to be charged for it

 

then of course there's the cost, quality of service implications of the monitoring

 

It's not. It's just Spotify direct from the record labels themselves so they garner more profits and with more involvement and investment in the ad sales.

 

spotify might sue them though haha

[TomIPT]

The Internet is merely a data transportation network, much like roads are for cars, or the postal system is for mail. Is every car, letter and parcel checked for illegal content as it goes about it's journey?

 

One of the major things that made the internet so successful was how free and open it was for development, it's the record companies fault that they didn't evolve with it, even now, where can I legally obtain lossless music online? It's bloody easy and convenient to find illegally though. To start monitoring and restricting everything people do on the internet will be a seriously bad thing and one hell of a task and is what would be needed to determine what content has been downloaded. look at what China are doing at the moment with the 'great firewall of China' it's pretty nasty stuff.

 

'Piracy' also has some positive outcomes, personally it has introduced me to some bands I would never have heard and honestly probably helped me get into Muse too. I admit to grabbing the leak of The Resistance, hell I even had it in FLAC before release but I now own 3 legal copies of the album including 2 box sets and I will be buying as many live tickets as I can afford to see them if they come to NZ next year.

 

There have been some studies recently that actually show that the people who 'illegaly' download media seem to in the end also be the people who buy the most legal physical copies and concert tickets. I wouldn't be too sure how accurate these studies are, although probably a hell of a lot more accurate than the 'studies' from the media companies that state the impact piracy has on their business with numbers that have been pulled out of thin air. Sure there are people who will abuse it, but generally if something is good, it will sell.

 

This is a very tricky debate and one that I don't really want to get too involved in as it always turns messy, I just feel a lot of people don't really get both sides of the story and it's simply not a black and white argument. Some of the methods that have been used to combat piracy are quite frankly sick and in some cases illegal in their own way. Methods like DRM can be cracked and just punish genuine users.

 

Also ISP's aren't making a killing off all of the data people download, in most developed countries ISP's don't charge users for how much they download which means heavy users are actually costing the ISP's money and congesting their network.

 

I also remember in an old interview with Matt saying something along the lines of "I don't care about people downloading our music, even we download music, it's the record companies problem" I'll have to do a bit of digging to see if I can find it.

 

BTW it's not stealing, it's Copyright Infringement, the whole "you wouldn't steal a car" ad campaign just showed how ignorant and foolish the large corporations are towards the issue.

 

Overall an interesting and fair view, just one I don't agree with personally. I do agree with your music though, but I would be very careful how you approach this issue as these simple statements could cause more harm for your band than piracy itself.

 

Check out the Digg comments

http://digg.com/music/Muse_Singer_Matt_Bellamy_Speaks_Out_About_File_Sharing

[Marvin]

Muse's album the Resistance has been downloaded about 10,000 times on TPB.

 

Let's do some basic maths

 

10k+ mulitplied by £7.99 if they got the equivalent on Itunes.

 

That works out at over £80,000 (considering I rounded the amount of downloads down) lost if a download = a sale (which some argue is right, some argue isn't) let's not.

 

Wait a minute, I have STILL not received my preorder exclusive set of 5000 made - I went ahead and downloaded it off TPB. I HAVE PAID for it already, as soon as my CD+DVD+VINYL etc arrive I'll delete the torrent but please try to explain how my torrent downloading cost MUSE money when I have already paid for it (and more than just the CD's worth).

[Egeli]

But you're not addressing the important points there. What did you think of Mozza's song? And do you have a flag? [/eddie izzard]

I love it, and I have a homemade flag for whatever that's worth

[Mozza]

But you're not addressing the important points there. What did you think of Mozza's song? And do you have a flag? [/eddie izzard]

 

The song wins the thread. Matt's views are irrelevant. I hope he mentions it on tour

[nohopeinfear]

I wrote Matt a song. What have you lot done? Nothing, apart from spaff or pick apart his arguement

 

 

I wrote him a song AND offered to slap his testicles free of charge!

 

Your move!