Best Muse Album

[HomesickSubterranean]

I'm talking about what the person considers to be objective. I don't subjectively like a song, but if think it's objectively good. I don't like it, but think it's good. I don't know why you're so touchy about this. I'm allowed to think a song is good but not enjoy it, and vice versa. It's not devaluing other opinions. I, along with others here, am free to express my thoughts on a song like this.

 

Thinking that something is objectively good is subjective in itself though, isn't it?

[dylb88]

I'm talking about what the person considers to be objective. I don't subjectively like a song, but if think it's objectively good. I don't like it, but think it's good. I don't know why you're so touchy about this. I'm allowed to think a song is good but not enjoy it, and vice versa. It's not devaluing other opinions. I, along with others here, am free to express my thoughts on a song like this.

 

trying to comprehend this, actually hurts my brain.

[Con101]

I think it's ignorant to say people can't judge things objectively. You can view an album as competently made, and understand what about the album makes people love it, but you can still yourself dislike the album. The Fight Club/Godfather analogy pretty much explains it perfectly. The best/favourite argument is valid imo.

[Hat]

I think it's ignorant to say people can't judge things objectively. You can view an album as competently made, and understand what about the album makes people love it, but you can still yourself dislike the album. The Fight Club/Godfather analogy pretty much explains it perfectly. The best/favourite argument is valid imo.

But if you dislike it for subjective reasons, why would others like it for objective reasons?

 

It's quite simple. If we asked everyone on this board what the objectively best Muse album was, we'd get loads of different answers. Why? Because there are no objective ways of judging an album. Especially not since we haven't even decided on what "best" means.

[HomesickSubterranean]

I think it's ignorant to say people can't judge things objectively. You can view an album as competently made, and understand what about the album makes people love it, but you can still yourself dislike the album. The Fight Club/Godfather analogy pretty much explains it perfectly. The best/favourite argument is valid imo.

 

The issue isn't that people shouldn't judge things objectively, it's more that people shouldn't declare things they believe to the best as the objective truth. You're free to try and decide what is the best movie you've ever seen based on a certain set of values, regardless of whether you loved it or not, but the fact remains that it's only your own understanding of what is best – it's ultimately subjective.

[Con101]

For me it's always been majority rules, if a lot of people say something is good, for an extended amount of time, I believe that is how you can measure something's objective value. I.e Origin is often touted as Muse's strongest album, more than any of the others so for me you can say that is their best offering thus far. It's not my favourite though and it's not the favourite of many other fans either.

[Hat]

For me it's always been majority rules, if a lot of people say something is good, for an extended amount of time, I believe that is how you can measure something's objective value. I.e Origin is often touted as Muse's strongest album, more than any of the others so for me you can say that is their best offering thus far. It's not my favourite though and it's not the favourite of many other fans either.

I'd say the majority don't like Muse at all though, so what does that say?

 

And let's be realistic, you don't think what people view as objectively good can be affected basically by social conditioning? I mean we all grow up learning that classic rock and stuff like The Beatles paved the way and that today's music is nothing in comparison, and that's before we even get to hear said music. Obviously it's gonna carry on without much original thought.

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

I'd say the majority don't like Muse at all though, so what does that say?

 

And let's be realistic, you don't think what people view as objectively good can be affected basically by social conditioning? I mean we all grow up learning that classic rock and stuff like The Beatles paved the way and that today's music is nothing in comparison, and that's before we even get to hear said music. Obviously it's gonna carry on without much original thought.

 

Man, I just gotta say, even though I've experienced what you're talking about before firsthand (the whole "classic rock is the absolute best" idea that I actually used to believe until I found out about Muse), to see it put starkly in words like that is really powerful. It's just something we don't usually think about as listeners, this idea that we might only think something is the best because everyone says it is and no one wants to be left out. Crazy stuff.

[Hat]

Man, I just gotta say, even though I've experienced what you're talking about before firsthand (the whole "classic rock is the absolute best" idea that I actually used to believe until I found out about Muse), to see it put starkly in words like that is really powerful. It's just something we don't usually think about as listeners, this idea that we might only think something is the best because everyone says it is and no one wants to be left out. Crazy stuff.

it doesn't even have to be about feeling left out. When we grow up we believe pretty much everything we're told, and if we're lucky we start thinking critically at some point in our lives. But much like gender and other social constructs affect us, so does less important stuff as taste and interests.

[Aeterna]

This is obvious stuff. It's not subjective if it isn't your opinion. If you think it's a fact, then you subjectively think it's objective.

 

I don't get what the uproar is about. I agree, isn't that enough for you people? Why have you got to pick apart what I'm saying and criticise it when I agree with you anyway?

[Hat]

This is obvious stuff. It's not subjective if it isn't your opinion. If you think it's a fact, then you subjectively think it's objective.

 

I don't get what the uproar is about. I agree, isn't that enough for you people? Why have you got to pick apart what I'm saying and criticise it when I agree with you anyway?

Because you never said you agreed? And now you're backpedalling.

[Aeterna]

Because you never said you agreed? And now you're backpedalling.

 

Never said I agreed with you. I agree with the others. I've been on this site for a couple of days now and the only thing that's ruined the experience has been you criticising a quarter of my opinions. This case is different because I replied to you first, but I was replying to an attack on people who like to separate favourite and best.

[Hat]

Never said I agreed with you. I agree with the others. I've been on this site for a couple of days now and the only thing that's ruined the experience has been you criticising a quarter of my opinions. This case is different because I replied to you first, but I was replying to an attack on people who like to separate favourite and best.

The others who commented on what you said literally disagreed with your definition of objective.

 

And I haven't criticised your opinions, I've criticised your reasons for those opinions.

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

I'd say that if you can agree with all parties on the definition of best, the criteria a work has to meet to come closer to being the best, and other such categories, then you can objectively decide what is best (so long as all parties are honest to the criteria and definition and what not). This is why a few people can usually agree on what's best with little difficulty, but having more people makes in increasingly more difficult to agree on what's "best." Both best and favorite are subjective when dealing with these kinds of things, but people have different ways of deciding what they think is best and what they think is favorite.

[Aeterna]

I'd say that if you can agree with all parties on the definition of best, the criteria a work has to meet to come closer to being the best, and other such categories, then you can objectively decide what is best (so long as all parties are honest to the criteria and definition and what not). This is why a few people can usually agree on what's best with little difficulty, but having more people makes in increasingly more difficult to agree on what's "best." Both best and favorite are subjective when dealing with these kinds of things, but people have different ways of deciding what they think is best and what they think is favorite.

 

^ Yes.

[Hat]

I'd say that if you can agree with all parties on the definition of best, the criteria a work has to meet to come closer to being the best, and other such categories, then you can objectively decide what is best (so long as all parties are honest to the criteria and definition and what not). This is why a few people can usually agree on what's best with little difficulty, but having more people makes in increasingly more difficult to agree on what's "best." Both best and favorite are subjective when dealing with these kinds of things, but people have different ways of deciding what they think is best and what they think is favorite.

So basically: If you can define best, and come up with criteria a work has to meet, THEN you can objectively decide on a best album.

 

And since neither of those have been done, we can't objectively decide anything.

[OriginOfAbso]

Tjet's logic in this is exactly right. Nothing in music is objective. Simple.

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

So basically: If you can define best, and come up with criteria a work has to meet, THEN you can objectively decide on a best album.

 

And since neither of those have been done, we can't objectively decide anything.

 

Pretty darn much. You're exactly right on all of this stuff.

[Exogenesisman]

Listening back to the Resistance in full today for the first time in a while and I forgot how much great Piano work there is on this album. Easily Matt's best piano work on an album as a whole. I understand while people knock Undisclosed Desires, Guiding Light and I Belong to You but I think there all great songs. Each of those song sounds really good to me. The only criticism I can see is that Guiding LIght is cheesy (but sounds awesome with that guitar), I belong to you is just to positive a muse song for some, and Undisclosed Desires has no guitar to speak of. That's probably why I love this album because it has some of there most unique sounding songs but there not so all over the place as the songs on The 2nd Law because I feel that this album really works as a complete Album.

[Trippynet]

I'm very much looking forward to the release of Drones, so it did give me an excuse to polish off some of my Muse vinyls and have a listen to them again - especially since getting a new record deck recently.

 

Must admit after listening to them again that I would still really like to push Muse for a proper remastering of several of their earlier albums. Absolution and especially BHaR could sound so much better than they do if they were treated to a decent remastering. The mastering on Absolution is very, very average and I still consider BHaR to be one of the all time worst mastered albums ever.

 

It's always such a pity listening to fantastic music on albums that has been let down badly by the mastering and wondering just how awesome it could sound - given the chance...

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

I'm very much looking forward to the release of Drones, so it did give me an excuse to polish off some of my Muse vinyls and have a listen to them again - especially since getting a new record deck recently.

 

Must admit after listening to them again that I would still really like to push Muse for a proper remastering of several of their earlier albums. Absolution and especially BHaR could sound so much better than they do if they were treated to a decent remastering. The mastering on Absolution is very, very average and I still consider BHaR to be one of the all time worst mastered albums ever.

 

It's always such a pity listening to fantastic music on albums that has been let down badly by the mastering and wondering just how awesome it could sound - given the chance...

 

I agree on Absolution, but, while BH&R does have issues (loudness and somewhat inaudibility of quieter things), something about it's sound is actually quite appealing and powerful.

[Trippynet]

I agree on Absolution, but, while BH&R does have issues (loudness and somewhat inaudibility of quieter things), something about it's sound is actually quite appealing and powerful.

 

Hmm, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I find the drums are so muffled and inaudible at the end of Take A Bow that they might as well have not bothered recording them at all. Meanwhile, Map Of The Problematique is just a solid and fatiguing wall of clipping and distortion from start to finish. And again during the second part of the song, Dominic's drumming is relegated to muffled and anonymous thuds in the background.

 

It's a real pity, but to me, BHaR was mastered without any regard whatsoever for sound quality. It was all about loudness unfortunately.

 

Hence, the best news I could hear as a fan would be for Muse to go back over these albums and get them properly remastered with the intention of making them sound as good as possible. I think many fans would be amazed at just how much difference some decent mastering would make to them.

[wiske]

I like Drones from what I have heard so far,but OOS is still my favourite album.

[JGB1991]

1. Black Holes and Revelations

2. Absolution

3. Origin of Symmetry

4. Drones

5. The Resistance

6. Showbiz

7. The 2nd Law

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

Welp, I think DRONES is staying at third best for me, but man, WHAT AN ALBUM?! I think my top three are all pretty much perfect in their own awesome ways, and the ones below are only off by a little. Here's my ranking again, pretty much my final opinion till the next album comes out (probably).

 

1. The Resistance**********

2. Origin Of Symmetry

3. DRONES

4 (tied) . Absolution/Black Holes & Revelations (an album with the strength of material of Abso and the strength of production of BH&R would be pretty much perfect, but I think that's what DRONES is supposed to be)

5. The 2nd Law (its highs and production are among Muse's greatest accomplishments, but oh does the 2nd half just fail to meet Muse's standards!)

6. Showbiz (while it's much more consistent than T2L, not much of the material is great by Muse's standards, though I do enjoy this more than T2L some days)

7. Hullabaloo (studio disc) (some great stuff, but too jumbled and inconsistent to compare with the other studio albums...if you add the live disc though...)