james90 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah, I can change one resistor or capacitor and it's no longer a fuzz factory wouldn't 100nf be a bit small? I was thinking more like somewhere between 1uf and 4.7uf I should get a breadboard then. I've got all the parts on order anyway (with spares of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tPostThePear Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 100nF will be too small probably, on the other hand with the 2.2uF input cap the frequency response is flat down to ~80hz so for standard guitars you don't need to raise the input cap. (you will not get any more bass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah. So do you mean the 2.2uf is larger than it needs to be as well? What would be best for getting a flat frequency response in the guitar range? if that makes sense I think I'll have to mess with both of them. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to build it stock, or with these modifications. Maybe I'll build two Also, while I'm sure it won't make a massive difference, I've got some different parts than what's in the kit... all will be revealed #soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tPostThePear Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 2.2uF is just right for this type of circuit, using the next smaller real world value like 1uf will cut slightly into the lowest frequencies of the guitar (80-100hz) but depending on your room, playing position, speakers, amp and pickups you might won't notice it. Actual worthy mods for the FF is trying different transistors and biasing the second transistor to half supply voltage and getting low leakage germanium transistors around 70hfe and 130hfe (second transistor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 2.2uF is just right for this type of circuit, using the next smaller real world value like 1uf will cut slightly into the lowest frequencies of the guitar (80-100hz) but depending on your room, playing position, speakers, amp and pickups you might won't notice it. Actual worthy mods for the FF is trying different transistors and biasing the second transistor to half supply voltage and getting low leakage germanium transistors around 70hfe and 130hfe (second transistor) cool worthy mods you say? fair enough, but I have no idea what transistors to try, or what ones will even work. I do have some old AC128s, but they're all around 70-80hfe. I do wonder if I should use it as the first one in this build for more NOS mojos. it's got sockets anyway, so I can probably try ALL the transistors without any damage occurring.... but who knows, this is me we're talking about I've only built one working pedal so far (boss FET booster, but I never use it), which strangely enough wasn't really a beginners' build (at least compared to a fuzz face) and I think this kit has a trim pot for biasing the second transistor. it's the BYOC kit. anyway, some of the parts are arriving today, but I can't get started until the kit with the PCB etc arrives later this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I use a 'continuously variable' input cap on Fuzz Faces. I really do think the stock value is too high. Something like a 0.1uF is actually really good, though you do lose some of the fatness and smooshy sounding bottom end that is a bit of a signature of the pedal. It's something to do with the low input impedance, which produces frequency selective clipping. Anyway, ramble over. Instructions: Build it exactly as it is in the instructions. Don't fuck up. Play it, and decide what you don't like about it. Mod it. Fuck it up. Pay someone to fix it/buy another one. Change name back to James90 with twisty Kaoss pad avatar. Seriously, I would perhaps put a socket in and try some different caps it would be a good starter project. Once you've built one successfully, you can easily knock up another on perf to mod to hell and back. EDIT: Do you know what transistors came with the kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I use a 'continuously variable' input cap on Fuzz Faces. I really do think the stock value is too high. Something like a 0.1uF is actually really good, though you do lose some of the fatness and smooshy sounding bottom end that is a bit of a signature of the pedal. It's something to do with the low input impedance, which produces frequency selective clipping. Anyway, ramble over. Instructions: Build it exactly as it is in the instructions. Don't fuck up. Play it, and decide what you don't like about it. Mod it. Fuck it up. Pay someone to fix it/buy another one. Change name back to James90 with twisty Kaoss pad avatar. Seriously, I would perhaps put a socket in and try some different caps it would be a good starter project. Once you've built one successfully, you can easily knock up another on perf to mod to hell and back. EDIT: Do you know what transistors came with the kit? Apparently "AC128 transistors made by New Jersey Semiconductor" which are new production. And that's probably what will happen really. Especially the part about paying someone to fix it/buying another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 New production AC128's are good, and at this stage in the game they are likely to be a million times better than any NOS you can dig up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Good I used NOS for the other parts though... ... and they were too big (referring to the resistors). But they're mil-spec NOS US made blah blah blah... The only other changed part is the philips 341 cap, which is what an old dallas arbiter would've come stock with. I don't know if it makes a difference really, and the included one was good quality, but why not It sounds really good. Only concern is that it's a little quieter than most, but I'm not too bothered. I think I have Q2 biased just under -5v (it was exactly 4.5 when I first switched it on, but I turned it up very slightly as it sounded a bit better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Nice work mate looks tidy. What do you mean by quieter?? If it's less than unity gain at full volume, something's wired wrong. Also, don't worry too min about biasing to 4.5, tweak it till it sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidious911 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Nice work, here's how my pedal project is currently looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Nice work mate looks tidy. What do you mean by quieter?? If it's less than unity gain at full volume, something's wired wrong. Also, don't worry too min about biasing to 4.5, tweak it till it sounds good. Thanks, and when I say it's quieter, it just has less output in general I guess. I can match it with the bypassed sound, but that's with the volume control nearly 3/4 the way up. I'm going to try a new battery, and double check that the pot was the correct taper And yeah that's what the instructions said. I set it to 4.5 using my DMM, but ended up adjusting by ear, and it probably ended up just below 5 (judging by where the pot is now set compared to before) Nice work, here's how my pedal project is currently looking... Thanks What pedal are you building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomrulez Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Looks like it could be a WM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Looks like it could be a WM. I sure hope that's an abbreviation for whammy, otherwise we might be in trouble I'm going to try to make a sound clip of my peddle today...going to have to resist playing hendrix songs. I probably won't be able to show what's going on with the volume though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidious911 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Looks like it could be a WM. Heh... its really thick fuzz....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tPostThePear Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 FF is not a loud pedal because Ge clips sooner than Si, i think i use mine with both pots cranked. btw new 9v batteries can output way above 9v so your 5v can be closer to half supply voltage than 4.5v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I just set the trim pot to where it sounded best really. I'm actually not sure of the exact number, but somewhere between 4.5 and 5 and maybe that's why. Thinking about it, the modded fuzz face clone I have with AC128s is similar. I still find I have to turn the volume way up to get it to match the bypassed signal though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 If you have the stock 2k vol pot in, there will be less perceived volume than you may expect looking from the wrong end of 60 years. It's a voltage divider, so more resistance between the output and ground will increase the level. I like the low value though, never had an issue with it. Should be able to get pretty damn loud though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If you have the stock 2k vol pot in, there will be less perceived volume than you may expect looking from the wrong end of 60 years. It's a voltage divider, so more resistance between the output and ground will increase the level. I like the low value though, never had an issue with it. Should be able to get pretty damn loud though. stock 2k? They gave me 500k for the volume, and 1k for the fuzz Also, would a leaky 10n cap cause this? I see no reason why that cap was bad (I don't know how to test if it's leaky, but it measured at 9.9n if that means anything, so I imagine it was fine), but 1) it's old and 2) the fuzz does sound slightly crackly/noisy (but I imagine that's from the NOS US made .5 watt mil spec 5% tolerance carbon comp resistors ) it's weird though, it's almost like that crackly tone Hendrix had in some of the early recordings. It was said that it was the amp, but I don't know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2mWFQDRfwQ not NEARLY as noticeable, but a similar effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tPostThePear Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Those resistors and that 10n cap have like zero impact on the tone in that circuit, (i mean compared to 1% metal films resistors and modern caps of the same value) (i've seen some sciency nerdy papers about carbon comps and it said that their sound artifacts are more noticeable in high voltage circuits (=amplifiers) and you need a lot of them in your circuit) cracking means biasing problems, that means improper transistors or a bad resistor value somewhere. (an FF made of proper GE transistors and biasing is one of the smoothest, violin like fuzz i have heard compared to the ~25 other fuzzes i built, it is probably one of the least cracky of fuzzes) dat crack tho:facemelt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Those resistors and that 10n cap have like zero impact on the tone in that circuit, (i mean compared to 1% metal films resistors and modern caps of the same value) (i've seen some sciency nerdy papers about carbon comps and it said that their sound artifacts are more noticeable in high voltage circuits (=amplifiers) and you need a lot of them in your circuit) cracking means biasing problems, that means improper transistors or a bad resistor value somewhere. (an FF made of proper GE transistors and biasing is one of the smoothest, violin like fuzz i have heard compared to the ~25 other fuzzes i built, it is probably one of the least cracky of fuzzes) dat crack tho:facemelt: QFT. Geofex FTW. If it sounds raspy, the transistors could be leaky, it could be mis-biased, or the collector resistor of Q2 could be off. Which all effectively amounts to the same thing in this particular design. If you don't like it, find a 2N3906 and drop it into Q1, then bias Q2 to about the correct 4.5v. If it gets smoother, then you probably have leaky transistors. EDIT: Also, I think Hendrix isn't using the FF in that video, that's all amp baby. The crackling sounds like it's overloading the desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 QFT. Geofex FTW. If it sounds raspy, the transistors could be leaky, it could be mis-biased, or the collector resistor of Q2 could be off. Which all effectively amounts to the same thing in this particular design. If you don't like it, find a 2N3906 and drop it into Q1, then bias Q2 to about the correct 4.5v. If it gets smoother, then you probably have leaky transistors. EDIT: Also, I think Hendrix isn't using the FF in that video, that's all amp baby. The crackling sounds like it's overloading the desk. I'm curious about the transistors. I set it at 4.8 or something the other day, and checked it yesterday and it measured at 6 And I don't know. I always thought he had it on the whole time and used the volume knob on the guitar to clean up the sound. There's definitely one there (next to the amp) Also this http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/wildthing66fuzz1.mp3 http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/killingfloor66fuzz.mp3 http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/heyjoeladforum69ish.mp3 Supposedly that's what his JTM100 with a '66 fuzz face sounds like today ...today as in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaicen Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'm curious about the transistors. I set it at 4.8 or something the other day, and checked it yesterday and it measured at 6 And I don't know. I always thought he had it on the whole time and used the volume knob on the guitar to clean up the sound. There's definitely one there (next to the amp) Also this http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/wildthing66fuzz1.mp3 http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/killingfloor66fuzz.mp3 http://areyouexperienced.net/music/jtm45100jm/heyjoeladforum69ish.mp3 Supposedly that's what his JTM100 with a '66 fuzz face sounds like today ...today as in 2010 Yes, Ge transistors will do that. They're temperature sensitive too. When you get chance, set the bias from cold ( as in, left overnight) to 4.5v. Now, keeping the multimeter in place, put your finger on Q2, and watch the voltage rise. The temperature sensitivity is one of the reasons that Jimi switched out his FF's for silicon versions in late '69, before recording Band of Gypsy's at the Filmore. but after Woodstock. All Jimi's Fuzz Faces sound different, one '66 will not sound like another '66, for the most part. Intersting to hear though, what's the source? FWIW, that video is from Monterey, in '67. If you look out a copy of The Ultimate Experience, there's a much better audio recording. I don't know if he was using the FF, but I've listened to a lot of Jimi (I have 12gb of Jimi on my HDD), and it is my opinion that he's just using the amp for most of that. I think he may kick on the FF for the solo, but I can't be sure. It just sounds a little too clear to be the FF in my opinion, particularly the treble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Yes, Ge transistors will do that. They're temperature sensitive too. When you get chance, set the bias from cold ( as in, left overnight) to 4.5v. Now, keeping the multimeter in place, put your finger on Q2, and watch the voltage rise. The temperature sensitivity is one of the reasons that Jimi switched out his FF's for silicon versions in late '69, before recording Band of Gypsy's at the Filmore. but after Woodstock. All Jimi's Fuzz Faces sound different, one '66 will not sound like another '66, for the most part. Intersting to hear though, what's the source? FWIW, that video is from Monterey, in '67. If you look out a copy of The Ultimate Experience, there's a much better audio recording. I don't know if he was using the FF, but I've listened to a lot of Jimi (I have 12gb of Jimi on my HDD), and it is my opinion that he's just using the amp for most of that. I think he may kick on the FF for the solo, but I can't be sure. It just sounds a little too clear to be the FF in my opinion, particularly the treble. That explains it then. The temperature hasn't exactly been stable the past few days. And that's interesting. Maybe that's the reason his tone changed around that time... so many people say it's because he switched from EL34s to 6550s in his amps, but there isn't actually any proof. Supposedly those clips were made by a friend of Jimi's, but I don't know anything else about them. If that's the amp... what would cause that noise exactly? They claim it's the power transformer and that it's the only one in the world that can do it... but I don't know. The power transformer can only affect the sound in so many ways. I do know that those JTM100s had a really high plate voltage (usually around 560 or something like that). I'm guessing it's more along the lines of a failing component somewhere (which might explain why it's even noisier in the recent recordings) and yeah I agree. This is definitely the fuzz face cleaned up with the volume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLGctGhAWU4 21 seconds in. You can see him turning the volume knob up as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james90 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Hey Jaicen I think something's wrong with my new peddle build. The output is actually decreasing the more I use it! I have the volume and fuzz maxed now, and it's quieter than the bypassed signal. Battery is absolutely fine and measures at 9.4v, and it doesn't sound any different with a PSU Could this be a bad transistor? I did notice that there's this sort of static-y sound (not the good kind that's in the videos above) that follows the notes, but the actual tone is really good other than that. Also, any news on those two things you were looking into? PM me if you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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