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Most progressive?  

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  1. 1. Most progressive?



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Surely their most progressive song is Paranoid Androi-

 

Hehe, Radiohead are less progressive than Muse. :LOL:

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Hehe, Radiohead are less progressive than Muse. :LOL:

 

Not really. They regularly experiment with different time signatures (Paranoid Android, Morning Bell, Everything In Its Right Place, 2 + 2 = 5, etc) and modulate more often than Muse. I don't think they're particularly progressive with the exception of Paranoid Android, but they are no less progressive than Muse.

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progressive = change in change signatures, tempos, not really repeating sections, technical, more in common with a classical score rather than 3min pop etc

 

 

basically, muse aren't a prog band, even citizen erased isn't, just a change in sound for the second verse, the chords don't change from the first and it has a chorus that's played three times, it's only the change to the outro that's anything close to 'progressive'.

 

 

I don't know where you got your definition of progressive from but this is from wikipedia (i know, I know, but it seems pretty accurate):

 

Progressive rock bands pushed "rock's technical and compositional boundaries"[1] by going beyond the standard rock or popular verse-chorus-based song structures. Additionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music. Instrumentals were common, while songs with lyrics were sometimes conceptual, abstract, or based in fantasy. Progressive rock bands sometimes used "concept albums that made unified statements, usually telling an epic story or tackling a grand overarching theme."[1]

 

Technically Muse are a Prog band based on this description. Here is the link to where Muse is ref. under New Prog (a label based on their stylings):

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog

 

New prog (sometimes called "Nu prog" or "post-prog") is a term used to describe a number of recent alternative rock bands who incorporate elements from progressive rock.

 

Bands described as "New prog" include:

 

Coheed and Cambria[1][2]

Doves[3]

Mew[4]

Muse[5]

Mystery Jets[6]

Oceansize[7]

Pure Reason Revolution[8]

The term in this sense is relatively new and other labels such as Post-prog have been suggested or used.[6][9] The term has also been used for some earlier bands, like Radiohead.[5] "New prog" has connections and overlap with the post-rock movement, but is distinct from the much earlier genre of neo-prog.

 

 

Furthermore, it is very hard to define their sound as just one genre, such as rock (Hysteria, SS) , or classical (Hoodoo, Ruled By Secrecy), or pop (Starlight, Supermassive), so I think that is why they put Muse in this label as they don't fit any one genre.

 

Nirvanas music was all similar, as is Rage, and to a lesser degree Radiohead. Listening to BH&R your hard pressed to find 2 styles of genres that are exactly the same.

TAB - electronic prog

Starlight - pop

SBH - pop funk

MOTP- 80's new wave

Soliers - '40s ballad

Invincible - pop prog (it does indeed progress to the end building until it explodes)

Assassin - bordering metal

Exo-politics - Alternative

City Of Delusion - fusion of world music

Hoodoo - Classical

KOC - Prog all the way baby (3 seperate parts, guitars, horns, bass, drums, lasers)

This album has a definate running theme of politics running throughout, therefore making it a borderline concept album with a start, middle and definate end.

 

My 2 cents worth. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. A reviewer of BH&R said they didn't like the album becuase no 2 songs were the same. I like it because of this, it shows diversity and imagination (something we know Matt has tons of!)

Edited by Discoprincess32

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New Prog isn't necessarily purely "Prog Rock". I think it's more used to describe modern bands that use progressive elements in their music without quite hitting full on progressive.

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Filling an album with musically unrelated songs with no real flow is not progressive. It just makes it seem like they are being diverse for the sake of diversity. All of the good prog concept albums I know of have a unified musical theme, and sometimes even recapitulate themes from one song later in the album (like Wagner and his leitmotifs, but never anywhere near as cool or complex). Not that a concept is a prerequisite for a prog album, because it isn't. Progressive structures are the qualifiers for prog albums.

 

I really wouldn't say that Assassin is bordering metal. It just sounds like a rock song to me. But then again, the only metal I am remotely interested in is by the likes of Electric Wizard, Sleep and Boris, so what do I know? But it isn't very heavy.

 

Invincible is basically just verse-chorus-verse-bridge-solo. They even use the verse chord progression during the solo! It's repetitive, not progressive. If it was progressive, they'd go for different vocal melodies in each verse and use different chord progressions each time (i.e. it would be through composed, but it's more like a modified strophic piece).

 

Anyway, most of the styles you've listened there are variations of straight forward pop music. Covering different styles of pop on the same album doesn't make them progressive. It makes them eclectic.

 

And Radiohead are definitely better at diversity than Muse! Just listen to Life in a Glasshouse, Idioteque, Paranoid Android, Faust Arp, Videotape, Like Spinning Plates, Fitter Happier and the National Anthem. They've covered a lot of ground, and they've done it all very well.

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I think KOC is Muse's most progressive song. It has two definite sections, with a long instrumental section with a melody that modulates itself, but without being too noticeable, the second section is modal, has huge over the top harmonies, time change, a synth solo and takes influence from spaghetti western. Citizen Erased is just longer than average, and has an extended outro, nothing too characteristic of prog.

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I don't know where you got your definition of progressive from but this is from wikipedia (i know, I know, but it seems pretty accurate):

 

Progressive rock bands pushed "rock's technical and compositional boundaries"[1] by going beyond the standard rock or popular verse-chorus-based song structures. Additionally, the arrangements often incorporated elements drawn from classical, jazz, and world music. Instrumentals were common, while songs with lyrics were sometimes conceptual, abstract, or based in fantasy. Progressive rock bands sometimes used "concept albums that made unified statements, usually telling an epic story or tackling a grand overarching theme."[1]

 

Technically Muse are a Prog band based on this description. Here is the link to where Muse is ref. under New Prog (a label based on their stylings):

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog

 

New prog (sometimes called "Nu prog" or "post-prog") is a term used to describe a number of recent alternative rock bands who incorporate elements from progressive rock.

 

Bands described as "New prog" include:

 

Coheed and Cambria[1][2]

Doves[3]

Mew[4]

Muse[5]

Mystery Jets[6]

Oceansize[7]

Pure Reason Revolution[8]

The term in this sense is relatively new and other labels such as Post-prog have been suggested or used.[6][9] The term has also been used for some earlier bands, like Radiohead.[5] "New prog" has connections and overlap with the post-rock movement, but is distinct from the much earlier genre of neo-prog.

 

 

Furthermore, it is very hard to define their sound as just one genre, such as rock (Hysteria, SS) , or classical (Hoodoo, Ruled By Secrecy), or pop (Starlight, Supermassive), so I think that is why they put Muse in this label as they don't fit any one genre.

 

Nirvanas music was all similar, as is Rage, and to a lesser degree Radiohead. Listening to BH&R your hard pressed to find 2 styles of genres that are exactly the same.

TAB - electronic prog

Starlight - pop

SBH - pop funk

MOTP- 80's new wave

Soliers - '40s ballad

Invincible - pop prog (it does indeed progress to the end building until it explodes)

Assassin - bordering metal

Exo-politics - Alternative

City Of Delusion - fusion of world music

Hoodoo - Classical

KOC - Prog all the way baby (3 seperate parts, guitars, horns, bass, drums, lasers)

This album has a definate running theme of politics running throughout, therefore making it a borderline concept album with a start, middle and definate end.

 

My 2 cents worth. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. A reviewer of BH&R said they didn't like the album becuase no 2 songs were the same. I like it because of this, it shows diversity and imagination (something we know Matt has tons of!)

 

you clearly misunderstood the definition, 'Progressive rock bands pushed "rock's technical and compositional boundaries"', this fits exactly into the description I gave.

 

if concept albums makes you a prog band, then My Chemical Romance, The Who, Radiohead, Aphex Twin, The Beatles etc are all prog bands.

 

Like Pubicimage said, Muse are more eclectic than prog, they predominately use traditional pop song structures and not outright technical, a build-up into a big crescendo isn't prog rock, christ that would mean drum'n'bass could be seen as 'progressive' :LOL:

 

And Radiohead's stuff doesn't all sound the same, the first three tracks on Amnesiac alone proves that and actually closer to Prog rock than Muse have ever been and alot of their songs build up into a big outro, plus Paranoid Android is a definitive prog rock song.

Edited by haze015

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The question isn't whether or not Muse are progressive.

 

They clearly do not have enough elements of progressive rock to be considered a progressive rock band.

 

The question is which of their songs incorporate the most progressive elements and could be considered the "most progressive".

 

I'd say KoC.

It has a pretty constant feel and tone colour unlike CE. But it's ingenious chord progression is the same thing in a different key 3 times, with slightly different instrumentation, and only the last one having lyrics.

It has 1 chorus repeated many times, with a riff added in half way.

Therefore, technically, the only section that is repeated separately note for note is the opening "ah ah ah" thing.

 

It definitely has a lot of progressive elements.

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There are some elements in the songs that make Muse sound progressive...

 

I just wonder also whether some people are confusing progressive for pomp. :erm:

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starlight is progressive.

 

Noob. :LOL:

 

Anyways Muse is not a prog-rock band, though they have displayed progressive elements in the songs.

 

New Born, Space Dementia, Citizen Erased, Apocalypse Please, BH&R, TAB, Assassin(GOB edit). What I look for a distinct non-repeating sections to be at least a minimal qualifier for a "prog song". All of those have that one section or more(Citizen Erased is probably their most prog).

Edited by PlugInMonster

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Noob. :LOL:

 

Anyways Muse is not a prog-rock band, though they have displayed progressive elements in the songs.

 

New Born, Space Dementia, Citizen Erased, Apocalypse Please, BH&R, TAB, Assassin(GOB edit). What I look for a distinct non-repeating sections to be at least a minimal qualifier for a "prog song". All of those have that one section or more(Citizen Erased is probably their most prog).

 

Look up sarcasm in the dictionary...

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Knights of Cydonia probably fits it best but really, it's a stretch. Muse are not a prog band.

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