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I would question how Simulation Theory is better than Absolution

 

Better flow, better master, more varied and interesting sounds without losing cohesion, more fun, nothing on the level of TOADA

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Better flow, better master, more varied and interesting sounds without losing cohesion, more fun, nothing on the level of TOADA

 

I concede the point on the master. Abso can definitely benefit from a good remastering. I'll also give you more varied although I'm personally not on board with some of ST's variations. As for fun, Absolution is a dark album and was never really meant to be fun so that's kinda by design. As for TOADA, I'd easily rate it higher than most of ST but again, to each their own.

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Better flow, better master, more varied and interesting sounds without losing cohesion, more fun, nothing on the level of TOADA

 

Considerably worse songs though, nothing on ST comes close to the quality of song writing seen on Absolution... maybe BITM comes closest.

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I can see a person who loves OoS will rate ST higher than Abso and BHaR

 

I'd say it's rated higher from those who absolutely love BHAR, since it's sonically quite closer to that album in terms of experimentation.

 

Considerably worse songs though, nothing on ST comes close to the quality of song writing seen on Absolution... maybe BITM comes closest.

 

The Dark Side? The Void? Pressure?

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Pressure, hah.

 

But nah wouldn't say The Dark Side comes close either.

 

C'mon, TDS is probably one the best "Musest" songs made by them in recent times.

It has melodies and progressions that hark back to their Showbiz/OOS days without sounding like a tired rehash or shameless fan-service, but giving a new twist to their traditional sound.

Which isn't quite the case with Blockades, IMO. It's a good song that tries to follow the aforementioned philosophy of TDS, but to me it ends up being a bit "by-the-numbers", like a Muse song that tries too hard to be such.

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C'mon, TDS is probably one the best "Musest" songs made by them in recent times.

It has melodies and progressions that hark back to their Showbiz/OOS days without sounding like a tired rehash or shameless fan-service, but giving a new twist to their traditional sound.

Which isn't quite the case with Blockades, IMO. It's a good song that tries to follow the aforementioned philosophy of TDS, but to me it ends up being a bit "by-the-numbers", like a Muse song that tries too hard to be such.

Recent days don't compare to OoS or Abso though (overall).

 

It's interesting how Blockades is seen as fanservice but The Dark Side isn't, even though The Dark Side was basically compared to every single Muse song that people loved. Even Matt admitted that it was pretty much created out of earlier Muse songs.

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Considerably worse songs though, nothing on ST comes close to the quality of song writing seen on Absolution... maybe BITM comes closest.

 

It maybe has the two absolute highs with Stockholm and Butterflies but it also has the lowest low (TOADA) and I’d say the core of ST is at least on par, if not generally a smidge better tbh.

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It maybe has the two absolute highs with Stockholm and Butterflies but it also has the lowest low (TOADA) and I’d say the core of ST is at least on par, if not generally a smidge better tbh.

TOADA is better than at least 4 songs on ST. I'd say easily 5 personally. There's nothing on Absolution that comes close to the (low) level of Dig Down and GUAF (I know you like this one though).

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TOADA is better than at least 4 songs on ST. I'd say easily 5 personally. There's nothing on Absolution that comes close to the (low) level of Dig Down and GUAF (I know you like this one though).

 

I could raise you to 6 or 7

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Gonna expose the truth - if TOADA was on the 2nd half of Showbiz, it’d be torn apart for the same reasons as Sober and Overdue (minus the lyrics)

 

Fight it, I dare you

 

DD is also just ST’s equivalent of TSP in that it’s a low point ‘cos it lacks creativity but TSP probs wins out by virtue of being more active.

Edited by Jobby

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Gonna expose the truth - if TOADA was on the 2nd half of Showbiz, it’d be torn apart for the same reasons as Sober and Overdue (minus the lyrics.

 

Here's another truth. Half the songs on ST could be replaced by those songs and it would be a better album.

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It maybe has the two absolute highs with Stockholm and Butterflies but it also has the lowest low (TOADA) and I’d say the core of ST is at least on par, if not generally a smidge better tbh.

 

For me:

 

Stockholm Syndrome

Ruled By Secrecy

Butterflies & Hurricanes

Fury

Hysteria

Blackout

The Small Print

Break it to Me

Apocalypse Please

 

Sing for Absolution

Propaganda

Time is Running Out

Falling Away With You

Endlessly

The Dark Side

Algorithm

The Void

 

Blockades

Thoughts of Dying an Atheist (agree this is by far the weakest on Abso)

Pressure

 

Dig Down

Thought Contagion

Something Human

 

Get Up and Fight

 

So I guess I find the good songs on ST to be amongst the same quality as the average songs on Absolution. The problem with ST is most of the second half of the album is bordering on unlistenable.

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For me:

 

Stockholm Syndrome

Ruled By Secrecy

Butterflies & Hurricanes

Fury

Hysteria

Blackout

The Small Print

Break it to Me

Apocalypse Please

 

Sing for Absolution

Propaganda

Time is Running Out

Falling Away With You

Endlessly

The Dark Side

Algorithm

The Void

 

Blockades

Thoughts of Dying an Atheist (agree this is by far the weakest on Abso)

Pressure

 

Dig Down

Thought Contagion

Something Human

 

Get Up and Fight

 

So I guess I find the good songs on ST to be amongst the same quality as the average songs on Absolution. The problem with ST is most of the second half of the album is bordering on unlistenable.

 

The good songs in ST are definetly better than average songs in Absolution imo. Algorithm, TV, and TDS should be higher than TIRO or even SFA. Pressure doesn't deserve the same category with Blockades and TOADA. How can TSP reach top 10 (and better than AP)? In Abosulution i'll put that song just above TOADA (or below :( I'm not a fan of TSP).

 

I still believe that everyone will bash FAWY and Endlessly if that song is released after TR (I like both of them though).

Edited by Odie

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Gonna expose the truth - if TOADA was on the 2nd half of Showbiz, it’d be torn apart for the same reasons as Sober and Overdue (minus the lyrics)

 

Fight it, I dare you

I'll fight it, because I wholeheartedly disagree. ESPECIALLY for Overdue (I still enjoy Sober, but it's definitely not great). I don't think TOADA would be considered a top 5 song on Showbiz by most, but it's a much more mature song than those 2. And you can't really say "minus the lyrics," because the lyrics are a big part of what makes TOADA good. Lyrics carry a lot of weight just like other aspects of a song, at least for me.

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The good songs in ST are definetly better than average songs in Absolution imo. Algorithm, TV, and TDS should be higher than TIRO or even SFA. Pressure doesn't deserve the same category with Blockades and TOADA. How can TSP reach top 10 (and better than AP)? In Abosulution i'll put that song just above TOADA (or below :( I'm not a fan of TSP).

 

I still believe that everyone will bash FAWY and Endlessly if that song is released after TR (I like both of them though).

 

Its easy to get bored of TIRO after we've heard it live for so many years, but it's still a great song.

 

Admittedly I have a soft spot for TSP, but the chorus is huge and the live performances from '04 made it one of my favourites.

 

Pressure is mediocre at best.. its far too long and has a chorus that feels out of place

 

If FAWY and Endlessly were released after TR they would probably both be worse songs. Endlessly would be overproduced and ladened with extra backing vocals and FAWY would go through cheesier chord progressions (like the horrid bridge section in The Void). So you're right they'd get more stick but I recon it'd be warranted as the same songs with a 2018 Muse finish would likely be pretty bad.

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1. The Resistance (Favourite album of all time, love the classical stuff)

 

2. Simulation Theory/ Black Holes (Synths and classical music in the same album, and there's rock too? Sign me up!)

 

3. Absolution (Fantastic album, every song is great, except for The Small Print)

 

4. Origin of Symmetry (again, fantastic album, great songs, just don't enjoy it as much as the others)

 

5. The 2nd Law (It doesn't really work as well as an album as the rest of them, but the songs are great, especially Follow Me, Liquid state and Unsustainable)

 

6. Drones (The Handler, Dead Inside and Defector lifts this album from last place, but the chorus of Aftermath and the missed opportunity of The Globalist prevents it from being higher.)

 

7. Showbiz (Again, has some real bangers, like Showbiz, Falling down and Uno, but also has some lows like Fillip and Overdue.)

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Symmetry

Absolution

Holes

Showbiz

Resistance

Law

Theory

Drones

 

I don't understand how the top 3 could be anything else - it's textbook Muse. You can flip Abso & Holes but there's so little fat on those 3 compared to what came after..

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Pressure, hah.

 

But nah wouldn't say The Dark Side comes close either.

 

I would :phu: TDS is phenomenal - especially the alternate reality version.

 

Gonna expose the truth - if TOADA was on the 2nd half of Showbiz, it’d be torn apart for the same reasons as Sober and Overdue (minus the lyrics)

 

Fight it, I dare you

 

DD is also just ST’s equivalent of TSP in that it’s a low point ‘cos it lacks creativity but TSP probs wins out by virtue of being more active.

 

I actually don't mind TOADA. It's a fairly straight forward rock song sure but it's not that bad. That said, I also really like Exo Politics and Escape which everyone else seems to hate so maybe I just don't really mind when Muse do very basic straight forward songs :LOL:

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My feelings on Abso have been the same for years now tbh

 

Stockholm - a goat Muse song, no debates

Butterflies - ^

RBS - ^

—-

Hysteria - great kinda industrial pop/rock song, easy to take for granted

AP - again, great, nice and pounding, top notch vocals. Bridges/outro feel a smidge...aimless though? idk

FAWY - chorus is flawed but still v sweet

—-

Blackout - nice I guess, not one I often seek out on-record though

S4A - again, it’s...okay? the pay-offs nice but it takes a lot of plodding to get there, really have to be in the mood to enjoy

—-

TIRO - actually a great sleezy pop rock vibe for the verses and bridge but the choruses and pre-choruses are mindnumbingly dull and repetitive and don’t change at all by the end

TSP - just kinda there, riff is particularly meh, chorus is a saving grace

TOADA - maybe the worst of Muse’s bog standard rock tracks, looked fun enough live but the studio version is just kinda obnoxious

 

Add on to that a pretty poor master and maybe the joint worst flow in their discography and it’s not an easy album to sit through for me. Can’t remember the last time I did. Sorry bois. Mildly amazes me that it’s up there with Origin for so many people, it being ‘classic Muse’ aside.

Edited by Jobby

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Mildly amazes me that people like Simulation Theory much at all, to be honest. I didn't care for it initially but hoped that it would grow on me after a while. Ultimately, I've grown to dislike it more after a month. Whether Muse are going for an 80's vibe or more modern sound, they've managed to ruin some decently conceived songs with electronic nonsense and overproduction.

 

The Dark Side still holds up well but it's just better-than-average for Muse's catalogue.

 

I really liked the deep and dark pulsing groove of Algorithm at first but, with repeated listens, it just seems more like second rate Apocalypse Please or Take A Bow. "This is war..." is the new "This is the end..."

 

The Void was another that sounded good out of the gate but has been kinda forgettable aside from "They're wrong, they're wrong..."

 

I've heard all the reasons why people love Propaganda and BITM. I hated them both at first. Maybe I appreciate them a little more now but not by much. The slide guitar in Propaganda is cool, shame about the rest of the song.

 

The remainder of the album really isn't worth commenting on for the most part. It doesn't offer any redemption.

 

If this wasn't a Muse album, I probably wouldn't have made it through even once without hitting the skip button. Being a fan, I've given the album a chance but it's just not very good. I don't see it aging well.

Edited by Nigel_Tufnel

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