Album Eight: Simulation Theory

[Hat]

How does Isolated System sound even remotely like Distance?

[FabriPav]

"we'll agree to disagree" more like "I'm wrong and I don't want to admit it"

[haze015]

We'll agree to disagree.

 

No, as the misrepresentation of it played a significant role in its appropriation and the subsequent whitewashing and hyped-up masculinity that led to what we refer to as "Brostep".

This left an entire scene having to disassociate themselves from something they created because it had become toxic in order to easily sell it to a particular demographic.

But lets ignore all of that because you think there's a passing similarity with Distance, who's output varies enough that its difficult to tell what you're actually claiming it to sound like.

[Hopix]

The similarity with Dupstep and Isolated system is pretty much only the bass element of the song, and that's where it ends, I'm not saying it's the same genre or anything. I said it was reminiscent to artists like Distance because of this bass element alone, I didn't mean it was similar in any other aspect.

 

I used Distance because it's the only traditional Dupstep artist I know, I'm not even that into the genre, especially not the mainstream strain of Brostep. If you think my limited knowledge on the genre should dictate whether or not I can talk about it and compare it to other stuff, then just lol.

 

And that's a pretty interesting backstory, but I'll stick by using the term Brostep, because its a handy way of determining stylistic differences. It's political "controversy" doesn't seam anywhere near significant enough to stop using it.

[haze015]

The similarity with Dupstep and Isolated system is pretty much only the bass element of the song, and that's where it ends, I'm not saying it's the same genre or anything. I said it was reminiscent to artists like Distance because of this bass element alone, I didn't mean it was similar in any other aspect.

 

I used Distance because it's the only traditional Dupstep artist I know, I'm not even that into the genre, especially not the mainstream strain of Brostep. If you think my limited knowledge on the genre should dictate whether or not I can talk about it and compare it to other stuff, then just lol.

 

And that's a pretty interesting backstory, but I'll stick by using the term Brostep, because its a handy way of determining stylistic differences. It's political "controversy" doesn't seam anywhere near significant enough to stop using it.

 

Then why not say that then? Then we could mention how wobble bass is far from exclusive to Dubstep and used in pretty much all dance genres, although the rewriting of history that occurred by others when Dubstep took off to turn Flat-Beat into proto-Dubstep was fucking hilarious.

 

I didn't say you couldn't talk about the genre, but its pretty arrogant to think you can say what is and what isn't to people who've been listening to it for around 10 years. If you want to know more about it, then check out the Dubstep Allstars mix series (The first one -

), as its best listened to in that context rather than individual producers as its about the atmosphere it creates and you'd see how different DJs emphasise different aspects, like Hatcha uses a lot of wobbly bass, Kode9 who did the third one and if I remember correctly, didn't feature much at all. There is a Distance one, with more of an industrial feel and just really dark.

 

And the socio-political aspect is why that stuff should be referred to as "Brostep". Plus really its just 80's hair metal made with NI Massive.

Edited December 10, 2016 by haze015

[Hat]

The similarity with Dupstep and Isolated system is pretty much only the bass element of the song, and that's where it ends, I'm not saying it's the same genre or anything. I said it was reminiscent to artists like Distance because of this bass element alone, I didn't mean it was similar in any other aspect.

 

I used Distance because it's the only traditional Dupstep artist I know, I'm not even that into the genre, especially not the mainstream strain of Brostep. If you think my limited knowledge on the genre should dictate whether or not I can talk about it and compare it to other stuff, then just lol.

But how is the bass similar to the works of for example Distance?

 

And it seems you didn't actually bother to read or try to understand what Haze said. He said that Distance has quite a varied output, so saying it sounds like Distance doesn't really mean anything. It's not a comparison unless you specify. Does Isolated System sound like this?

 

 

And that's a pretty interesting backstory, but I'll stick by using the term Brostep, because its a handy way of determining stylistic differences. It's political "controversy" doesn't seam anywhere near significant enough to stop using it.

You should probably read haze's post again, because that was never the point.

[TheHappySpaceman]

"we'll agree to disagree" more like "I'm wrong and I don't want to admit it"

 

This board in a nutshell.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXILNncQwH4

[Hopix]

Then why not say that then? Then we could mention how wobble bass is far from exclusive to Dubstep and used in pretty much all dance genres, although the rewriting of history that occurred by others when Dubstep took off to turn Flat-Beat into proto-Dubstep was fucking hilarious.

 

I didn't say you couldn't talk about the genre, but its pretty arrogant to think you can say what is and what isn't to people who've been listening to it for around 10 years. If you want to know more about it, then check out the Dubstep Allstars mix series (The first one -

), as its best listened to in that context rather than individual producers as its about the atmosphere it creates and you'd see how different DJs emphasise different aspects, like Hatcha uses a lot of wobbly bass, Kode9 who did the third one and if I remember correctly, didn't feature much at all. There is a Distance one, with more of an industrial feel and just really dark.

 

And the socio-political aspect is why that stuff should be referred to as "Brostep". Plus really its just 80's hair metal made with NI Massive.

 

I am specifying it now, because apparently comparing the two things vaguely was quite controversial.

 

I don't want to be the jurisdiction on what is and what isn't, I was just giving my opinion...

 

Regardless I will check out the link you gave to gain more of an insight.

 

But how is the bass similar to the works of for example Distance?

 

And it seems you didn't actually bother to read or try to understand what Haze said. He said that Distance has quite a varied output, so saying it sounds like Distance doesn't really mean anything. It's not a comparison unless you specify. Does Isolated System sound like this?

 

 

You should probably read haze's post again, because that was never the point.

 

The wobbles in the song you gave actually do remind me of the wobbles in IS, yes. Shock horror I know. I'm aware that this sort of effect is used in a ton of genres, but I'm not all that familiar with electronic stuff generally, so hence the comparison I made.

 

And I'm glad that was not the point Haze was making.

[haze015]

Whilst it may seem pointless as its just electronic music to dance or get messed up to, genres in dance music can mean far more than just a few musical aspects and sounds, although this is true in general. There's history, culture, politics involved, not just in general, but also within scenes (Techno, as defined by Juan Atkins, was a reaction to House/NY Garage music for example).

Plus each genre is meant to create a specific atmosphere and often within a particular environment, like typically meant to be played on a large sound system and then there's the size and type of venue - "Big Room" or there is The KLF's pisstake "Stadium House" for The White Room.

 

So whilst it may not seem controversial to compare two songs, it can easily be, as we're discussing a genre (Dance music in general) that its roots in LGBT+, POC and working class culture, that has a strong DIY and counter-culture ethic ingrained into it.

But it has entered the mainstream and its complicated to say the least. Techno did become a toxic word in the early 90's, at least in the UK, as what went into the mainstream under that label had little to do with the underground sound - Seriously check out Juan Atkins, was a huge influence on Aphex Twin for example. Trance went through the same. House has always celebrated pop, so comes in and out of mainstream attention.

House and Garage refer to specific clubs, although it should be pointed out that Garage, the stuff that came out of The Garage in New York and I think is similar to early House (I must admit, I'm not a huge fan of House, so hardly the most knowledgable) is different to the 90's British sound/scene which Dubstep is based on. The British obsession with breaks and non-straight beats was actually partly a reaction to the Tories pushing through a law banning repetitive beats! That actually happened.

 

All this can easily be more interesting than the music actually.

Edited December 12, 2016 by haze015

[Clunge]

Nope, it is incomprehensibly dull, tedious and inane.

[FabriPav]

I disagree.

[haze015]

Nope, it is incomprehensibly dull, tedious and inane.

 

Yup.

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by haze015

[Hopix]

For me the music is paramount. I am interested in the backstory or the scene to an extent but it does not take precedent over the actual sound. When I compare two pieces of music, I'm comparing the music only, unless stated otherwise.

[haze015]

For me the music is paramount. I am interested in the backstory or the scene to an extent but it does not take precedent over the actual sound. When I compare two pieces of music, I'm comparing the music only, unless stated otherwise.

 

That's obvious. Just making the point that there's often more to genres than just the sound. But it should never be more important than the music itself.

With this area of music, you could listen to tracks produced in 1988 in Chicago and Detroit and in all honesty, sound very similar, but get the genre wrong and all hell breaks lose! And it is all down to that other side, which isn't always obvious just from the sound.

 

 

Anyway, to get back on track, Muse are at their least interesting when their songs are easily identifiable as a particular genre, they are at their best when they mix things up within the songs and actually been quite influential through that.

[Duk3 Fluk3m]

I disagree.

 

I agree.

[lurkinglurkerlurksagain]

I agree.

 

I agree with one of you

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

More interested in more of the electronic stuff than an acoustic album, but I'm convinced Muse can sell me on just about anything they record after Drones...so acoustics would be fun and hopefully still very exciting. Soldier's poem would have been perfect on a classic Queen album.

[FabriPav]

...

[TheHappySpaceman]

More interested in more of the electronic stuff than an acoustic album, but I'm convinced Muse can sell me on just about anything they record after Drones...so acoustics would be fun and hopefully still very exciting. Soldier's poem would have been perfect on a classic Queen album.

 

Ssh, don't say those words around here! People here don't like Soldier's Poem or Queen!

 

(Kidding!)

[forevermusic]

I think I recall some people taking the piss by having a hardcore mosh to Soldier's Poem at the Stade de France gigs in 2010.

 

Acoustic you can mosh too would be an interesting style. But then the return of it, if it happens, is still something of a sea change. Though maybe it'll just raise hopes it might get City of Delusion recalled on the next tour.

[haarpabaloo]

More interested in more of the electronic stuff than an acoustic album, but I'm convinced Muse can sell me on just about anything they record after Drones...so acoustics would be fun and hopefully still very exciting. Soldier's poem would have been perfect on a classic Queen album.

 

I've always liked SP, but I think it really suffers from it's placement on the album after MotP. I'm guessing they wanted to juxtapose the lighter acoustic song next to the heavy drop C electronic MotM, but it just didn't work. - it was too jarring and too much of a letdown. If SP had followed or led into Hoodoo I think it would have been better received.

 

Anyways, to the point of the thread, my guess is when Matt said "acoustic" he meant "lighter" by stripping away the heaviness of Drones and the electronics of T2L / Resistance. If so, I would love an "acoustic" album in they style of their lighter / more idiosyncratic songs like Recess, Screenager, Hoodoo, etc.

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

Ssh, don't say those words around here! People here don't like Soldier's Poem or Queen!

 

(Kidding!)

 

lol, I love SP and Queen (check my screen name) and lost any fears of folks disagreeing with my tastes years ago. no need to worry.

[Bohemian-Cygnus-Running-Out]

I've always liked SP, but I think it really suffers from it's placement on the album after MotP. I'm guessing they wanted to juxtapose the lighter acoustic song next to the heavy drop C electronic MotM, but it just didn't work. - it was too jarring and too much of a letdown. If SP had followed or led into Hoodoo I think it would have been better received.

 

Anyways, to the point of the thread, my guess is when Matt said "acoustic" he meant "lighter" by stripping away the heaviness of Drones and the electronics of T2L / Resistance. If so, I would love an "acoustic" album in they style of their lighter / more idiosyncratic songs like Recess, Screenager, Hoodoo, etc.

 

Agreed. 1-4 on BH&R is a series of pretty perfect transitions, but SP totally stops everything in its tracks. Would've made more sense around Hoodoo and CoD.

[serpentsatellite]

SP is a pretty specific political piece with a big contrast in tone that just kills the album dead where it's placed.

It didn't really even have a chance.

[01FromFinland]

So uhm, am I the only one who's had the thought in the back of their heads...

 

''What if he meant more piano with 'acoustic'? Piano is acoustic anyway, soo...''

 

Pls gib more piano yes.