denise3112 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Shy? That Little Animal put it well, in the social media thread. Aah yes. Those posts rest on the tension between the traditional anti-authoritarian/political artistic message (esp in Rock musics) and the rich artist who enjoys the spoils of capitalism. Who out of us would be any different in MB's shoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Aah yes. Those posts rest on the tension between the traditional anti-authoritarian/political artistic message (esp in Rock musics) and the rich artist who enjoys the spoils of capitalism. Who out of us would be any different in MB's shoes? I don't think that's so much the point (if we'd do the same.) It's more that people have a hard time swallowing the political or social messages in the music when the band doesn't really believe in it (and in some people's eyes, makes a mockery of it, like with Burning Man.) There's so many things to write songs about; why not stick with something you actually relate to? (Answer = $$$) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Only they know what they believe. It's possible to have a political conscience and to be wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Keep missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Everyone's a hypocrite to a greater or lesser extent, but appaz this is big news all of a sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumpypotato Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Everyone's a hypocrite to a greater or lesser extent, but appaz this is big news all of a sudden. Yeah, pretty much. Everyone is getting so bent out of shape over this. Quite honestly, who gives a fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Keep missing the point. Perhaps because you haven't actually deigned to straight-up make your point. How would we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Only they know what they believe. It's possible to have a political conscience and to be wealthy. The issue is "political conscience" has as many different facets as there are political "parties" or systems of belief. And the values of the wealthy tend to be different than those of the populace. Muse's political output has been rather vague (at least the singles; Eurasia was pretty specific.) Assuming intentionally. And using the inclusive "we." Look at Uprising. When the audience hears about the "fat cats" holding us back, they think about CEOs who pay their staff minimum wage with no health insurance while making $32 billion a year themselves and dodging taxes. Or lobbyists buying elections. Or something. On the other hand, it's more likely a wealthy person equates it with a record label taking too much money, or having to pay too much taxes, etc. People project a lot onto entertainers that they are into. Maybe that's wrong, but it's become a cycle where the entertainers certainly take advantage of the fact. Look at how many people HERE were wondering why Bellamy didn't say anything about Brexit during Glastonbury! It's the reason I'm so worried about the big Libertarian and anti-establishment movements in the US. For the average person freedom to do as you please without a government puppeteer sounds amazing. The government *has* done some shit things to us. It's easy to believe they are a cause of why so many struggle financially, medically, and socially. Unless you really think about it, and realize those who already have the means (the wealthy CEOs, local politicians, etc) are also going to be free to do as they please... like lowering wages, eliminating health care, underfunding infrastructure and education; and we end up being "free" but possibly even more oppressed and bad off. But, it's a good example about how the same rhetoric can appeal to wildly different classes, while meaning something completely different to both. I really don't like when entertainers get too into the hot button issues, I guess, for the most part. Especially when it's a change they make later down in their career and it wasn't there from the start. It usually ranges from off putting to pandering. Perhaps because you haven't actually deigned to straight-up make your point. I think because That Little Animal already made it in the Social Media thread.Oversimplified version: Matt's having fun, but giving the appearance of acting like a spoiled rich brat while doing it. Edited September 7, 2016 by SerpentSatellite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 While I'm largely not bothered, I was under the assumption nudity and displays of corpulent wealth is what Burning Man was about. Although it may be that this perception is part influenced by recent talk of the gentrification of the festival, and Silicon Valley billionaires making it their own playground, like they seeming do with everything. The articles about that luxury camp getting ram-raided is quite something - can see why its both partly justified and completely contrary to the spirit of the thing. Might not be on topic. But then again as this is a Drones Tour discussion thread there's an argument none of it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 we end up being "free" but possibly even more oppressed and bad off... Yes, got a lot of sympathy for this view (Althusser et al) I really don't like when entertainers get too into the hot button issues, I guess, for the most part. Well, yes, people like Bono, Sting, and Saint Geldof come to mind. I don't like them for sure because they are holier than thou and hit you over the head with it. I don't feel like that about Muse. They are not preachy. I like singing along about the 'fat cats' and with the revolutionary lyrics of Assassin etc. I don't plan on assassinating anyone but I quite like the idea... Matt doesn't make soapbox speeches. I'm glad he didn't stick his oar in about Brexit at Glasto. He's well-read and curious about the world. That's genuine imo. He uses that in his song-writing. I don't care that he has become wealthy and sings about Drones. They're just songs. And more interesting than endless songs about lurve-gone-wrong-yawn-yawn (plus/minus a dollop of misogyny) which is staple fare of most (rock) bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 This is starting to turn more into a political debate now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 endless songs about lurve-gone-wrong-yawn-yawn (plus/minus a dollop of misogyny) which is staple fare of most (rock) bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 This is starting to turn more into a political debate now. Yeah it's off topic (although I didn't start it tbf). But the Drones Tour is over. Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Uprising is a very generic political "anthem" - seriously, you can use that song (and it has been) on the Glenn Beck show, during Libertarian rallies, and by Bernie Sanders fans. And more. It's deliberately generic, and that comes across as a kind of pandering to me. I might not like it, but I'd probably respect it more if it actually took a stance. It's stuff like Unnatural Selection that actually enrages me, though. Stuff like that probably contributes to why I'll never be able to see TR as a whole for anything other than a soulless piece of disappointment, even though I had generally positive opinions of T2L, which shares the same problems musically and production-wise. Incidentally, I DON'T feel that way about anything on Drones, but that's likely because I can't really see it being particularly political and it just plays out as a sad breakup album to me, with maybe some meanderings on how people who start wars and do bad things to others have probably also been dumped or had a band home life. It was the tour for Drones, and a lot of Matt's commentary, that eventually retrospectively made me feel crap about the album, and that's disappointing, really. (And I'm not entirely convinced there isn't a tiny bit of misogyny, intended or not, in this lurve-gone-wrong-yawn-yawn album, either.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Incidentally, I DON'T feel that way about anything on Drones, but that's likely because I can't really see it being particularly political and it just plays out as a sad breakup album to me, with maybe some meanderings on how people who start wars and do bad things to others have probably also been dumped or had a band home life. Mixing personal and political themes is a time-honored creative approach. Shakespeare (et al) did it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Mixing personal and political themes is a time-honored creative approach. Shakespeare (et al) did it... Absolutely. I just don't think Matt did a passable job at fleshing out any of the political themes. Saying "drones" 47 times on an album isn't sufficient to claim it's a commentary on the perils of drone warfare, nor is Psycho in any way an insightful or creative depiction of military life, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 hahaha, for sure! Got to give you that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevermusic Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I was under the assumption Unnatural Selection was more writing in character than reflective of personal political statement. Meh. At the end of the day, its mainly about the riff and yelping along. Does well on that front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 At the end of the day, its mainly about the riff and yelping along. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duk3 Fluk3m Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Meh. At the end of the day, its mainly about the riff and yelping along. Does well on that front This is pretty much what Muse have been all about since the beginning, aint it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Anyone trying to glean any kind of lyrical nuance from Muse is frankly an imbecile. Matt's lyrics scan like the musings of a hormonal teenager, a gullible one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I was under the assumption Unnatural Selection was more writing in character than reflective of personal political statement. Meh. At the end of the day, its mainly about the riff and yelping along. Does well on that front Does saying you're writing something "in character" make it better, though...? That's basically saying he can't identify with the sentiment of the lyrics (and in this case, quite honestly, is closer to the antagonists the song is about,) but he's writing it in the mindset of someone who can; namely, his fans. That's got to be pretty close to the definition of pandering, tbh. Anyways, Drones. I honestly don't think if I hadn't seen so many interviews with Matt talking about the "story" and the different ideas of "drones" that I would have ever picked up on any of that by listening to the album, so I do think it's a failure in that aspect. I didn't know anything about Green Day's American Idiot when I heard it, and I remember catching on that it was a story and figuring it all out during the listen. Remember when Matt was linking all that stuff about psycho CEOs and military leaders, brainwashing, and stuff and someone on Twitter asked him to confirm if it was all one song? And then here comes Psycho... Likewise with the tour, I remember reading SO many interviews that raved about the "magnificent dystopian story" that the songs and visuals told... and thinking that I probably should also have been high at the gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise3112 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 On a different note a fan has paid £50,000 for one of Matt's smashed guitars from the last night they played at the O2. (Drones Tour so on topic) http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2016-09-07/smashed-and-signed-muse-guitar-raises-50k-for-charity/ The fan is called Christina. What I want to know is, is she on here? Not you is it SerpentSatellite? :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumpypotato Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 That's basically saying he can't identify with the sentiment of the lyrics (and in this case, quite honestly, is closer to the antagonists the song is about,) but he's writing it in the mindset of someone who can; namely, his fans. That's got to be pretty close to the definition of pandering, tbh. Holy shit, what a leap in logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) On a different note a fan has paid £50,000 for one of Matt's smashed guitars from the last night they played at the O2. (Drones Tour so on topic) http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2016-09-07/smashed-and-signed-muse-guitar-raises-50k-for-charity/ The fan is called Christina. What I want to know is, is she on here? Not you is it SerpentSatellite? :LOL: It would take me like three years to make that much money after taxes... Well, maybe less if the pound falls a bit more. I'm also honestly not that in to signed stuff, as weird as that might be. Edited September 9, 2016 by SerpentSatellite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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