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But I just don't really know if it has anything to do with Montreux moaning.

 

And for the record I haven't bothered listening to the French interviews where it was apparently said. Mainly as I can't get them to load. I just remember seeing something mentioned in the pre-Glastonbury Telegraph interview involving a city state based theory, although that's a bit of a different political/sovereignty debate altogether.

 

But, whatever, massively off-topic.

 

It was just a joke, wasn't it?

 

And yeah, it's not speculating, there's sources.

 

I just don't like in general celebrities getting into politics, tbh.

Runs the risk of putting off fans who are into them.

They're typically so divorced from the realities facing the people who will be truly impacted by any political decision that it's just off putting if the way they voted has negative repercussions on people that they are avoiding by having wealth and power.

And this goes both ways, because Hollywood is known to be super liberal, as am I, and I don't find that encouraging... it just associates the political views with the "elite" and out of touch, and can come off condescending no matter which side they're on (*cough* Unnatural Selection *cough*)

 

I found the increase in faux-political songs/anthems on TR extremely off putting.

 

I find myself wishing I'd just drifted away from the band then like a normal person. Damn my boyfriend for getting into them at that time. :LOL:

 

Because of this band I keep saying 'oh ffs' out loud and my dog hates it when I swear.

 

I'm pretty sure one of my dogs thinks a curse word is his name...

 

Even at bigger gigs, have you ever seen Matt looking bored while playing a rarity?

 

I... I don't have the experience to answer this question... :'(

 

I can attest he looked like he wanted to punch me in the face during one of the major hits, but I didn't take it personally because he never once opened his eyes. :chuckle:

 

I don't think it's speculating to say the band obviously enjoys playing the rarer songs more, or at least the ones that aren't super structured at the gigs.

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:LOL::LOL:

 

 

Argh, yeah that's fucked up. And it's all just assumption... just because the US gigs don't have all of us mentalists in the front row you don't deserve the good shit. If you think nobody cares why just play the standards, why not have a larf

 

It was really, really hard to deal with, finding out for a fact that these guys looked at the US fans that way, during a period when I was so, so into them (2013.) And it's just fucked up bias, and really untrue.

And just when I'd sort of gotten over it (Drones era) and after I had had an inappropriate fight with the interviewer and convinced myself it was all misrepresentation (I'm sure some of the people who've been around here long enough can out me as having more apologist leanings in the day... :embarrassed: ) here comes a fan to confirm it all at the Texas gigs, and then that French interview.

 

Pissed me right off that all US fans get is "shut up and deal with it, your country sucks and you deserve it," "entitled twats," "real fans go to Europe, you're stupid if you go to the US gigs."

And, let's be honest, Europe just found out while they get way better than the US, of course, well... they're not Switzerland! And that's why this shit blew up. (Also huge lols at the same people saying "US crowds aren't quiet because they're different culturally... THEY SUCK" who are now saying "well, it's the Swiss! That's how they are!! They are super respectful and they were super into it!!!!" Nope. Not buying that. Move on.)

Your arenas are CE and Bliss level... but you still fall flat for the good stuff.

Hurts, doesn't it? :phu: :'(

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And just when I'd sort of gotten over it (Drones era) and after I had had an inappropriate fight with the interviewer and convinced myself it was all misrepresentation (I'm sure some of the people who've been around here long enough can out me as having more apologist leanings in the day... :embarrassed: ) here comes a fan to confirm it all at the Texas gigs, and then that French interview.

 

Just out of curiosity, which Tx gig are you referring to? If it's the Dallas gig when Glen came out and talked to us for an extended period of time in the queue, then I was there and I honestly don't recall anything to the depth of what you're saying. He basically said what we knew, which was that they don't play those songs here bc nobody knows them (which is true). Not to get off topic...

 

And, let's be honest, Europe just found out while they get way better than the US, of course, well... they're not Switzerland! And that's why this shit blew up. (Also huge lols at the same people saying "US crowds aren't quiet because they're different culturally... THEY SUCK" who are now saying "well, it's the Swiss! That's how they are!! They are super respectful and they were super into it!!!!" Nope. Not buying that. Move on.)

Your arenas are CE and Bliss level... but you still fall flat for the good stuff.

Hurts, doesn't it? :phu: :'(

This I agree with. The only reason this blew up was because finally Europeans were complaining instead of the usual whining Americans.

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Just out of curiosity, which Tx gig are you referring to? If it's the Dallas gig when Glen came out and talked to us for an extended period of time in the queue, then I was there and I honestly don't recall anything to the depth of what you're saying. He basically said what we knew, which was that they don't play those songs here bc nobody knows them (which is true). Not to get off topic...

 

 

This I agree with. The only reason this blew up was because finally Europeans were complaining instead of the usual whining Americans.

 

It was Dallas.

I don't have reference to know if what my coworker personally overheard was the same situation, because he would have recognized neither those fans in front of the line, nor what Glenn looked like or who he was. He was walking the line, eavesdropping on fans talking to each other. I don't think I included that? No? Just what the fan on here said.

I got the impression he started a conversation with someone and led the "the band doesn't like this country?" convo, because he's the same fellow who did the interview I'd talked about earlier. It wasn't likely an unbiased thing, in Dallas, with him.

He didn't record, this time.

 

I don't want to out the person, but if someone wants to put in the legwork, the comment is there in the Q&A discussion thread.

It doesn't really matter to me if it's exaggerated or not, because like I said, I'd already had other sources that proved it to me long before. I was more just surprised that other fans were told the same thing. And were defending it.

Maybe not surprised they were defending it, but disappointed.

 

I'll never, ever agree with Matt's decision to not play that one song for his biggest fans, even if his inflated 99% turned out to be true.

Muse is one of the only bands in my history of gigs who would allow that kind of view to dictate that every single song needed to be 100% known at their gigs, and I hate it.

And I hate that Matt tried to justify it.

 

It's actually hard for me to be sympathetic to Europeans mad they didn't get Fury and Futurism when they got CE, Map, TaB, Bliss, Defector... and many of them at the same gigs, when many of them were so abusive when the US was depressed about losing CE, Bliss and even Reapers.

But, I try, because I know what it feels like to be told you don't matter.

It's not nice.

 

It looks like this gig was the turning point for even some of the people who fell into the excessive defender category, too, and they're seeing their friends turn on them...

One point for camp negative, I guess; I might be supremely pissed about what happened this tour and caught up on bitching about it, but I would never betray a friend over a band. I don't even insult the strangers I disagree with over a band, calling them "twats" "pathetic" and telling them to fuck off out the fanbase.

Edited by SerpentSatellite

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It looks like this gig was the turning point for even some of the people who fell into the excessive defender category, too, and they're seeing their friends turn on them...

One point for camp negative, I guess; I might be supremely pissed about what happened this tour and caught up on bitching about it, but I would never betray a friend over a band. I don't even insult the strangers I disagree with over a band, calling them "twats" "pathetic" and telling them to fuck off out the fanbase.

 

I've actually always been an apologist and defender, haha. That's just how I am - but I recognize the futility and well, idiocy of it sometimes. Even now - I'm completely angry with them but it's not going to really change anything. I just shrug and say well, I'm used to it, I'll take whatever I can get. But you're right about the anger - people are suddenly blowing up if you disagree with them. Hell, just a few minutes ago I got jumped on by someone for coming to someone's defense over this. How ridiculous...

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I've actually always been an apologist and defender, haha. That's just how I am - but I recognize the futility and well, idiocy of it sometimes. Even now - I'm completely angry with them but it's not going to really change anything. I just shrug and say well, I'm used to it, I'll take whatever I can get. But you're right about the anger - people are suddenly blowing up if you disagree with them. Hell, just a few minutes ago I got jumped on by someone for coming to someone's defense over this. How ridiculous...

 

I'm not big into the FB community, and only comment or even pay attention to it from time to time, but I remember your name because (unless there's another hyena in the Muse community) you take some very beautiful photos and videos, and are a hell of an artist.

 

Which is also the reason I was surprised to see you here, because I know directly and first hand you're an aggressive apologist. :LOL:

No hard feelings?

Like I said, I'm sure Tjet, Fabri, or Dee if he were still around can tell you all about what a "defender" I was accused of being (by them.) (And now I'm agreeing with Dee on reddit... :noey: )

I just reached a point where I couldn't do it. They broke my heart, and I wasn't interested in making excuses for why we here are treated so badly anymore. What we're getting isn't enough for me.

I still rather strongly defend the music, even if I am critical of parts of it (still the reviewer/critic in me,) but the tour has been my hot button, along with Matt's ongoing comments.

 

It's just a band, but it's been the longest running thing in my life other than the job that's destroyed my body and soul. Over 12 years now...

 

Entwined so closely with my overcoming abuse, finding love, even adopting two disabled dogs (one of whom I tried to name Bliss,) buying a home, reconnecting with old friends, taking my first roadtrip with my partner, and ultimately deciding day by day to persevere in the face of something that's stolen much of my life from me. The music has helped me look back and remember there were good times, and given me something to look forward to.

I'll never forget a night listening to the release of Mercy while unable to get up off the couch, and my boyfriend just saying "that's beautiful, isn't it? Perfect." And really reconnecting with him after hardship had pushed us a bit apart.

 

It's juvenile, but it sucks really bad to have heard them say we don't matter, or they look down on us. Sometimes shit isn't logical, I guess.

But, it makes me want to lash out at the band, not other fans. Doing that isn't going to make what's happened go away, or help me bury it. And unlike other people, the band isn't going to ever read what I say, or care if they did.

And why would it make things better for me to belittle others?

 

It's too easy to think of critical fans in a black and white manner, but we're not being negative because we've decided to hate the band, or we're mocking them. We're upset because we're passionate, upset, and vulnerable in our embarrassing obsession.

 

(I'm going to really hate myself for this when I sober up...)

Edited by SerpentSatellite

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Yeah that's me, thanks for the kind words :)

 

Which is also the reason I was surprised to see you here, because I know directly and first hand you're an aggressive apologist. :LOL:

No hard feelings?

Is it that obvious? I'm paranoid now...

 

It's just a band, but it's been the longest running thing in my life other than the job that's destroyed my body and soul. Over 12 years now...

[...]

We're upset because we're passionate, upset, and vulnerable in our embarrassing obsession.

I'm sorry you've been through so much. It's a shit situation to be sure when you devote so much of your life to something and then get hurt by it. I mean, hell -- here's the ultimate apologist position: Even if everything is true and they do feel that way, then oh well. They have stupid and wrong opinions. Despite being a musical genius, Matt can be a full-on idiot sometimes. They're also lazy -- in fact, it's amazing the amount of things they do that piss us all off that can be attributed to simple laziness. It is what it is. Matt's ignorance about the fans and American fans specifically is something that can be fixed. I have hope.

 

Honestly they're probably one of the hardest bands in existence to be a fan of, but for all they've given me, I can't walk away. (Not saying that anyone is, but if they choose to, or want to "take a break" from them...there's nothing wrong with that). But for all of that, I wouldn't trade them for anyone else.

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There was a Zepp 2, Europe lost it's shit despite not exactly having a bad time with the Drones Tour, Matt said he won't play rare songs at his own gigs because they "fall flat," and 99% of people don't know them. (Ignoring the fact that 99% of people at the Swiss show didn't know them.)

Then he started making empty promises again, or at least getting fans' hopes up by talking shit about rarities tours, setlist polls, etc.

There is already a petition for the rarities tour. Again, just like last time. We're enjoying arguing about it.

Oh, and Tom said the whole thing was filmed, and will be out Soon. You know, like the first Zepp.

 

Really, Muse needs new material. This is just a repeat of past Muse Drama. Lazy.

 

Oh, and reddit is apparently fucking hilarious.

 

Has anyone stopped to think that we know that Matt makes snarky comments that aren't as clear as he thinks they are (like telling those girls he'd played Defector in Brussels,) and that maybe when he said "what do you want, a rarities tour?" (or whatever) that that was said in the same tone as "what do you want? Didn't we already do the Psycho Tour?"

And he didn't mean that was even a tiny remote possibility (it isn't)... but that he was referring to his earlier comment about how they'd already done that?

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The only way I'd support a rarity tour is if they did an actual tour comparable to T2L before the next album, because I think they'd greatly benefit from being surrounded by hardcore fans, playing small shows, awesome songs and getting a good crowd reaction.

 

I would think that would improve the album. Especially when confronted with the reality that we exist everywhere. Otherwise, start playing 21-24 songs and rotate some of the staples to make room for more material next tour. Don't bother playing a ton of shows in Europe (because they already get a ton of shows, good ones too) and the East/West Coast of the United States.

Edited by Alexander DeLarge

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That Butterflies & Hurricanes from Montreux was phenomenal, and crowd reaction added to it.

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That Butterflies & Hurricanes from Montreux was phenomenal, and crowd reaction added to it.

 

Yes. And was recognised by way more than 1% of the audience.

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It's been about 6 years since I logged into this account so my opinion may be pretty irrelevant but I'll blather on anyway. I suppose I'd be classed as a casual these days, as I'm not that into muse's recent output and up until this year, hadn't seen them since 2010. But looking at the set list for the European tour spurred me on to buy tickets for one of their shows, and it was great - if the they'd been playing setlists similar to the US I simply wouldn't have bothered. Surely there are casuals, like myself who properly got into them a while ago who would love to hear songs from past eras?

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That Butterflies & Hurricanes from Montreux was phenomenal, and crowd reaction added to it.

 

Butterflies is hands down one of their top 5 live songs. Is absolutely immense in person.

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That Butterflies & Hurricanes from Montreux was phenomenal, and crowd reaction added to it.

 

B&H played in any 3000 cap venue, to any crowd, will get a reaction like that.

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Yes. And was recognised by way more than 1% of the audience.

 

To be fair, Butterflies was a single, and a reasonably well known one at that. When people were suggesting only a small handful of the crowd would know certain songs, I'm pretty sure they were referring to stuff like Fury, Futurism, The Groove and Agitated.

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BH charted and has been used on adverts as well so... I mean it's certainly a more known song that Citizen I'd argue; which IMO only has its fame from how Muse fans hold it on a pedestal

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Way more than 1% of people knew songs there. Just look at the show. They are not wild except for the first 5 rows but you can see that they recognize songs and know what's coming on.

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B&H isn't really what people are talking about. It's a well known song that Dom said only wasn't played much at the Drones tour because it sounded like shit, not because no one knew it.

 

Also, again, we know more than 1% of people know the songs. Matt massively exaggerated to try and make himself sound better.

 

And the same % at that festival knew them as everywhere else, as it wasn't some magical super special fans only gig. Just a regular one.

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