maturefan Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Can someone please tell me what Dom said about The Troubles that is causing people to say it was ill-judged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWS Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Can someone please tell me what Dom said about The Troubles that is causing people to say it was ill-judged? It was Matt, he dedicated a song to his uncle who was killed during the troubles in 1979 I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToriB Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 It was Matt, he dedicated a song to his uncle who was killed during the troubles in 1979 I think Dedicated Uprising to him yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museisti Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 bloody hell what a gig! still very sore from all the headbanging. can't believe they really played uno. and fury. and everything. just felt so good to have such a sweaty muse gig after the stadium tour cheesefest, this is how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturefan Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It was Matt, he dedicated a song to his uncle who was killed during the troubles in 1979 I think And what was wrong with that? Yes, his uncle was a soldier who was shot dead in 1979. The person who said 'You just don't talk about The Troubles' is wrong, unless he has personal experience of having lost someone close and he and his family don't want to talk about it. I knew Matt's Mum came from Belfast but, until reading about this, I didn't know about his uncle, so he has a double connection with Belfast. I'm furious that neither the belefasttelegraph.co.uk nor BBC1 NI News even mentioned that one of the biggest bands in the world played in Belfast on Sunday. Was there anything in the local papers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynam Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 http://www.gigwise.com/features/98930/muse-support-band-marmozets-interview---life-on-the-road-with-the-band just gonna leave this here.. She sounds so ungrateful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarieberry Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 http://www.gigwise.com/features/98930/muse-support-band-marmozets-interview---life-on-the-road-with-the-band just gonna leave this here.. She sounds so ungrateful! I thought they sucked... so much shrieking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynam Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I thought they sucked... so much shrieking... She sounds like an absolute spoilt brat in this article, she doesn't even know Chris and Dom's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarieberry Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 She sounds like an absolute spoilt brat in this article, she doesn't even know Chris and Dom's name? Yeah just referring to them as "The drummer and bassist" ... you'd think she'd be humbled that members of such a huge band would be fans of her own band and at least attempt to remember their names! Also, she just keeps saying "Muse are all about the riffs" repeatedly, as if she's never bothered to listen to any of their music at all so just has a generic line to go to. Fan or not, you'd think she'd have a listen to the music of the band she's touring with before the tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraffah Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) And what was wrong with that? Yes, his uncle was a soldier who was shot dead in 1979. The person who said 'You just don't talk about The Troubles' is wrong, unless he has personal experience of having lost someone close and he and his family don't want to talk about it. I knew Matt's Mum came from Belfast but, until reading about this, I didn't know about his uncle, so he has a double connection with Belfast. I'm furious that neither the belefasttelegraph.co.uk nor BBC1 NI News even mentioned that one of the biggest bands in the world played in Belfast on Sunday. Was there anything in the local papers? Generally the words "killed here" and "The Troubles" won't win you any favours in Ireland, even for those of us that come from here. In our post conflict country, we're still very raw and not used to hearing those words. It's a massive taboo and we don't talk about it, never mind English people or anyone else coming over and talking to us about it as an ill judged attempt to connect with us. Consider that at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans who object to any and all British involvement in the North at least in theory, if not through active engagement themselves, and you should at least be able to appreciate why it was not a good idea - it immediately splits the crowd into "us" and "them", which is what we've spent the past 15 years trying (for the most part, unsuccessfully) to grow beyond. I think it's a fair bet that most of the people in the crowd were affected by some family connection in the Troubles - we're a small, humble place, and the attacks during those years were both disturbingly common and had a massive, far reaching impact. Pretty much everyone from here lost a friend or relative during them, if not more. It wasn't poorly received out of spite or disgust - nobody booed it and nobody left the show or anything, at least that I'm aware of - and the show moved on almost immediately, but it was awkward - I noticeably felt the atmosphere just shrink, and the people around me made awkward jokes amongst themselves to diffuse it in that particular Northern Irish Way - and in that light I'm not comfortable with people like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise it. Edited March 17, 2015 by Wraffah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturefan Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Generally the words "killed here" and "The Troubles" won't win you any favours in Ireland, even for those of us that come from here. In our post conflict country, we're still very raw and not used to hearing those words. It's a massive taboo and we don't talk about it, never mind English people or anyone else coming over and talking to us about it as an ill judged attempt to connect with us. Consider that at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans who object to any and all British involvement in the North at least in theory, if not through active engagement themselves, and you should at least be able to appreciate why it was not a good idea - it immediately splits the crowd into "us" and "them", which is what we've spent the past 15 years trying (for the most part, unsuccessfully) to grow beyond. I think it's a fair bet that most of the people in the crowd were affected by some family connection in the Troubles - we're a small, humble place, and the attacks during those years were both disturbingly common and had a massive, far reaching impact. Pretty much everyone from here lost a friend or relative during them, if not more. It wasn't poorly received out of spite or disgust - nobody booed it and nobody left the show or anything, at least that I'm aware of - and the show moved on almost immediately, but it was awkward - I noticeably felt the atmosphere just shrink, and the people around me made awkward jokes amongst themselves to diffuse it in that particular Northern Irish Way - and in that light I'm not comfortable with people like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise it. How old are you? I was born in Belfast in 1960 and lived in a suburb of the most violent part of Belfast until 1982. Talking about The Troubles has never been 'a massive taboo' for me, nor for anyone I know. And yes, I did know people who were murdered, and so did my family and friends. I accept that it may have been awkward - I was told earlier on this thread that the gig wouldn't be a political rally because I was concerned that someone might hand Matt a flag which would be bound to upset people. I had no idea he had an uncle who had been killed in Belfast. 'People like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise?' You mean people like me who lived through the most violent years of The Troubles? I was in no way downplaying or trivialising this. I also take issue with your assertion that 'at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans.' You are assuming that all Catholics are Republicans which is not true; I myself am Catholic. Edited March 17, 2015 by maturefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWS Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Generally the words "killed here" and "The Troubles" won't win you any favours in Ireland, even for those of us that come from here. In our post conflict country, we're still very raw and not used to hearing those words. It's a massive taboo and we don't talk about it, never mind English people or anyone else coming over and talking to us about it as an ill judged attempt to connect with us. Consider that at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans who object to any and all British involvement in the North at least in theory, if not through active engagement themselves, and you should at least be able to appreciate why it was not a good idea - it immediately splits the crowd into "us" and "them", which is what we've spent the past 15 years trying (for the most part, unsuccessfully) to grow beyond. I think it's a fair bet that most of the people in the crowd were affected by some family connection in the Troubles - we're a small, humble place, and the attacks during those years were both disturbingly common and had a massive, far reaching impact. Pretty much everyone from here lost a friend or relative during them, if not more. It wasn't poorly received out of spite or disgust - nobody booed it and nobody left the show or anything, at least that I'm aware of - and the show moved on almost immediately, but it was awkward - I noticeably felt the atmosphere just shrink, and the people around me made awkward jokes amongst themselves to diffuse it in that particular Northern Irish Way - and in that light I'm not comfortable with people like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise it. It was only an awkward moment as people didn't know how to react. It was not ill-judged as he did not voice an opinion of it, he only stated that his uncle was killed which there is absolutely no problem mentioning in this context. Your statement that at least 40% of the crowd are republican is both misinformed and innapropriate for a music forum. Edited March 17, 2015 by JamesWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturefan Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It was only an awkward moment as people didn't know how to react. It was not ill-judged as he did not voice an opinion of it, he only stated that his uncle was killed which there is absolutely no problem mentioning in this context. Your statement that at least 40% of the crowd are republican is both misinformed and innapropriate for a music forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abraxian Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It was only an awkward moment as people didn't know how to react. It was not ill-judged as he did not voice an opinion of it, he only stated that his uncle was killed which there is absolutely no problem mentioning in this context. Yeah man, Englishman tells an Irish crowd that their uncle died in the Troubles definitely comes across as neutral. As for anyone else, stop using personal anecdotes to trivialise what Wraffah actually witnessed. It's pointless. Muse aren't infallible. Stop being that kind of fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraffah Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 How old are you? I was born in Belfast in 1960 and lived in a suburb of the most violent part of Belfast until 1982. Talking about The Troubles has never been 'a massive taboo' for me, nor for anyone I know. And yes, I did know people who were murdered, and so did my family and friends. I accept that it may have been awkward - I was told earlier on this thread that the gig wouldn't be a political rally because I was concerned that someone might hand Matt a flag which would be bound to upset people. I had no idea he had an uncle who had been killed in Belfast. 'People like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise?' You mean people like me who lived through the most violent years of The Troubles? I was in no way downplaying or trivialising this. I also take issue with your assertion that 'at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans.' You are assuming that all Catholics are Republicans which is not true; I myself am Catholic. Old enough and sensible enough to know that there's a very good reason bands on tour in Ireland don't talk about or provoke things. I've been to plenty of shows there and its never, ever been mentioned before - and nor has it been an issue. Eg Iron Maiden dropped the Trooper from their set at the Odyssey in 2011 because Bruce runs around waving a Union Flag as part of the show. If bands as large as Maiden won't play a song about the Crimean War in case it pisses someone off, bringing The Troubles up explictly should have been an obviously bad idea. The dedicated song was Uprising. The political connotations are so obvious I don't even feel I should have to keep pointing them out. at no stage have I said it was anything but a tragedy that people lost their lives in the conflict - but this show, their first in Belfast since 2006, was not the forum to share that. If you're going to tell me otherwise, perhaps you should have been at the show and watched it go down like a lead balloon for yourself. I wouldn't make this up. I'd much rather be bragging about catching every rare song they've played lately bar Yes Please and Map of the Problematique than splitting hairs about this! It was only an awkward moment as people didn't know how to react. It was not ill-judged as he did not voice an opinion of it, he only stated that his uncle was killed which there is absolutely no problem mentioning in this context. Your statement that at least 40% of the crowd are republican is both misinformed and innapropriate for a music forum. I disagree that it wasn't ill judged for the reasons above. The fact we're talking about this instead of how good and exciting the show was proves that to me. If you disagree, that's okay too - we don't have to keeping hammering through on this topic. My main point throught this has been that it is awkward and for that reason I think something else should have been said which wasn't awkward. That is literally all I am arguing here. The republicans example is based on a simplistic assumption that, as the society is roughly 47% unionist and 45% nationalist, it would break down into 40% of each and 20% from abroad or undeclared. This is a guess based on the rough breakdown of Northern Irish demographics as disclosed in the 2011 census and some mild guesswork, rather than some empirical statement. It at no point has extremist (ie actively terrorist supporting) implications in my usage, as it is a political word used to describe a political viewpoint (which I myself hold), and I would apologise if you assumed that I was labelling almost half the crowd as such. That was never my intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWS Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Old enough and sensible enough to know that there's a very good reason bands on tour in Ireland don't talk about or provoke things. I've been to plenty of shows there and its never, ever been mentioned before - and nor has it been an issue. Eg Iron Maiden dropped the Trooper from their set at the Odyssey in 2011 because Bruce runs around waving a Union Flag as part of the show. If bands as large as Maiden won't play a song about the Crimean War in case it pisses someone off, bringing The Troubles up explictly should have been an obviously bad idea. The dedicated song was Uprising. The political connotations are so obvious I don't even feel I should have to keep pointing them out. at no stage have I said it was anything but a tragedy that people lost their lives in the conflict - but this show, their first in Belfast since 2006, was not the forum to share that. If you're going to tell me otherwise, perhaps you should have been at the show and watched it go down like a lead balloon for yourself. I wouldn't make this up. I'd much rather be bragging about catching every rare song they've played lately bar Yes Please and Map of the Problematique than splitting hairs about this! I disagree that it wasn't ill judged for the reasons above. The fact we're talking about this instead of how good and exciting the show was proves that to me. If you disagree, that's okay too - we don't have to keeping hammering through on this topic. My main point throught this has been that it is awkward and for that reason I think something else should have been said which wasn't awkward. That is literally all I am arguing here. The republicans example is based on a simplistic assumption that, as the society is roughly 47% unionist and 45% nationalist, it would break down into 40% of each and 20% from abroad or undeclared. This is a guess based on the rough breakdown of Northern Irish demographics as disclosed in the 2011 census and some mild guesswork, rather than some empirical statement. It at no point has extremist (ie actively terrorist supporting) implications in my usage, as it is a political word used to describe a political viewpoint (which I myself hold), and I would apologise if you assumed that I was labelling almost half the crowd as such. That was never my intention. You're confusing Nationalist with Republican which has caused the problem. Yes, I agree we should be talking about the gig (which I was at!) It wasn't meant to be received with a response from the crowd, he was dedicating a song to a deceased relative, no one in their right minds should take offence to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWS Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Yeah man, Englishman tells an Irish crowd that their uncle died in the Troubles definitely comes across as neutral. As for anyone else, stop using personal anecdotes to trivialise what Wraffah actually witnessed. It's pointless. Muse aren't infallible. Stop being that kind of fan. Are you serious? You're throwing numerous assumptions on to what he simply said. If he said something I felt was ill-judged I would say it, it's rather condescending of you to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturefan Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Yeah man, Englishman tells an Irish crowd that their uncle died in the Troubles definitely comes across as neutral. As for anyone else, stop using personal anecdotes to trivialise what Wraffah actually witnessed. It's pointless. Muse aren't infallible. Stop being that kind of fan. Lots of people died in The Troubles. Just because this victim was English doesn't mean that his nephew was taking sides. I'm not 'that kind of fan.' A few people mentioned that they thought the comment was ill-judged. I happen to disagree. I also disagree with your assumption that, if 45% of people in Northern Ireland are Catholic, 40% of Northern Irish citizens Republican. I have never, ever thought of my self as either Nationalist or republican, just a Northern Irish born Catholic. I would have felt uncomfortable if I had been there simply because I hadn't been aware that Matt's uncle had been a victim of the violence. I think anyone would feel uncomfortable if they hadn't known; it probably changed the mood instantly from euphoric to desperately sad. How am I trivialising anything? I have spoken to someone else who was there and she said that there was no discernible change in the atmosphere so I guess your capacity to be offended by something which wasn't meant to be offensive depends on your readiness to see offence where none was intended (from me as well as from Matt.) Edited March 17, 2015 by maturefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgms Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Generally the words "killed here" and "The Troubles" won't win you any favours in Ireland, even for those of us that come from here. In our post conflict country, we're still very raw and not used to hearing those words. It's a massive taboo and we don't talk about it, never mind English people or anyone else coming over and talking to us about it as an ill judged attempt to connect with us. Consider that at least 40% of the people at that show would be Republicans who object to any and all British involvement in the North at least in theory, if not through active engagement themselves, and you should at least be able to appreciate why it was not a good idea - it immediately splits the crowd into "us" and "them", which is what we've spent the past 15 years trying (for the most part, unsuccessfully) to grow beyond. I think it's a fair bet that most of the people in the crowd were affected by some family connection in the Troubles - we're a small, humble place, and the attacks during those years were both disturbingly common and had a massive, far reaching impact. Pretty much everyone from here lost a friend or relative during them, if not more. It wasn't poorly received out of spite or disgust - nobody booed it and nobody left the show or anything, at least that I'm aware of - and the show moved on almost immediately, but it was awkward - I noticeably felt the atmosphere just shrink, and the people around me made awkward jokes amongst themselves to diffuse it in that particular Northern Irish Way - and in that light I'm not comfortable with people like yourself trying to downplay or trivialise it. lol Talk about makin a mountain outta a mole-hill......It wasnt poorly received at all and no it did not seem awkward. If someone felt awkward, its one of those ppl that just LOVE to tell evryone that they come from Northern Ireland and about the troubles. The problem now over here is not the troubles or talking about them....its the ppl who love to be these white knight elitist trouble braggers...."oh god no one talk about the troubles because you werent there and dont understand our plight or struggle". Boringgg. If you genuinely feel quite 'Raw' and 'not used to hearing those words'....u need to grow up and stop being a big girls blouse. Its YOU thats boring the arse off everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturefan Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 lol Talk about makin a mountain outta a mole-hill......It wasnt poorly received at all and no it did not seem awkward. If someone felt awkward, its one of those ppl that just LOVE to tell evryone that they come from Northern Ireland and about the troubles. The problem now over here is not the troubles or talking about them....its the ppl who love to be these white knight elitist trouble braggers...."oh god no one talk about the troubles because you werent there and dont understand our plight or struggle". Boringgg. If you genuinely feel quite 'Raw' and 'not used to hearing those words'....u need to grow up and stop being a big girls blouse. Its YOU thats boring the arse off everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraffah Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 lol Talk about makin a mountain outta a mole-hill......It wasnt poorly received at all and no it did not seem awkward. If someone felt awkward, its one of those ppl that just LOVE to tell evryone that they come from Northern Ireland and about the troubles. The problem now over here is not the troubles or talking about them....its the ppl who love to be these white knight elitist trouble braggers...."oh god no one talk about the troubles because you werent there and dont understand our plight or struggle". Boringgg. If you genuinely feel quite 'Raw' and 'not used to hearing those words'....u need to grow up and stop being a big girls blouse. Its YOU thats boring the arse off everyone. Yet you're the one who's so outraged that you feel the need to ignore the posts above and bring us back to this point... it's almost like you're looking for an argument and frankly I don't have the time for it. Good day lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgms Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Yet you're the one who's so outraged that you feel the need to ignore the posts above and bring us back to this point... it's almost like you're looking for an argument and frankly I don't have the time for it. Good day lad. lol, you dont have time for it...OR...you are one of those NI white knight trouble braggers I mentioned lol. Come on mate, admit it...u love it. lol. I can just see u now with your friends from afar, telling them tales of times of woe and worry. How dangerous those streets of Belfast were for a young person growing up. How terror lies around every dark corner. While you actually sport a massive hard-on for yourself. I didnt feel the need to respond to any particular parts of your posts or some of the other utterly ridiculous statements/numbers alleged because I find it all a bit too hilarious if Im honest. Ive met a handfull of ppl like you from here who just LOVE to start an issue over nothing. By misleading the fans of this forum who weren't in attendance (apart from myself happily - I was there and can call u out on your Bullshit) by making what was said out to be more of an issue than it was....ur actually the instigator here, not me mate. There was no lead-balloon. There was no indication of awkwardness - apart from maybe YOU and your buddies talking amongst yourselves. Maybe if you hadve spent less time counting the prods and Catholics in attendance and maybe paid more attention to the concert u wudve enjoyed yourself more. You my friend....are an EEJIT lol Edited March 17, 2015 by paulgms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgms Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) You're confusing Nationalist with Republican which has caused the problem. Yes, I agree we should be talking about the gig (which I was at!) It wasn't meant to be received with a response from the crowd, he was dedicating a song to a deceased relative, no one in their right minds should take offence to it. Ur absolutely spot on chum. It was a totally informative non inflammatory statement from Bellamy. Not even a remote issue - In fact - I wud imagine more ppl had more of an appreciation of Matts ties to the country when he said that as they may not have known prior to him saying it. Its such a silly thing to take offence to. But WAFFLER or or wotever the individual is thats saying it was some great taboo subject is just being very dramatic so they look cool. Maybe if they werent standing in the big girls blouse section they wudve enjoyed the show and not went off blogging about sectarianism at the muse concert. Edited March 17, 2015 by paulgms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraffah Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 You're a fine one for calling me a waffler when you've written two incoherent paragraphs on a tangent that I never once presented myself, mischaracterising and misconstruing what were already rather simple sentences in order to try and present me as some sort of killjoy busybody or some other nonsense. I have been at pains to note that nobody "took offense" to it and your lack of comprehension of this is remarkable. I already said I have no more time for your shenanigans and you won't be getting a rise out of me. Pip pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgms Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) You're a fine one for calling me a waffler when you've written two incoherent paragraphs on a tangent that I never once presented myself, mischaracterising and misconstruing what were already rather simple sentences in order to try and present me as some sort of killjoy busybody or some other nonsense. I have been at pains to note that nobody "took offense" to it and your lack of comprehension of this is remarkable. I already said I have no more time for your shenanigans and you won't be getting a rise out of me. Pip pip. WAFFLER lol. That entire reply is just more waffle. I had a wee click on ur twitter link and all I can say is WAFFLE. u have a whole bunch of ppl who wer also at the concert calling you a waffler too lol. But of course everyone else is wrong and ur right. I will leave you be now as I dont want you to misconstrue this into something its not - as u are very fond of doing apparently. if u ever actually manage to snag urself a boyfriend - God help him Oh heres some parting gems from ur timeline if ur wondering wot Bullshit I am referring to (and why indeed u are a killjoy busybody to use ur own words) - read back over these and just contemplate on these insights from ur own imagination - #MuseBelfast Dom just dedicated Uprising to his uncle, "killed here in 79 in the troubles." Room went awkward silent. Way to go, Dom.. :/ #MuseBelfast knights confirmed. Dont think you got just how poorly recieved that troubles comment was. Totally killed the atmosphere. Its picked back up with the big songs (singing to both, jumping for knights) but 1800 people just collectively went :| #MuseBelfast If you're not from here, theres one rule to being here - dont mention the troubles. Oh well. Gig still amazing #MuseBelfast If you dont get it: troubles here = civil war. Nearly everyone lost a family member. We dont talk about it. Hence bad reaction. #MuseBelfast Offstage for encore break. Crowd unfazed by troubles thing now. It just threw us really - nobody can react to that #MuseBelfast U are my new favourite eejit Edited March 18, 2015 by paulgms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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