ryanp16 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I can't be annoyed by both? Being annoyed by both is rather self-contradictory. "Fuck European fans for asking for more than we got. Fuck European fans for not asking for even more than that". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duk3 Fluk3m Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Well I suppose if Mozza says Ashamed isn't a good song, it is decreed that Ashamed is objectively bad and it will never have a chance of getting played because no one will ask for it. It was me who said it was bad The outro is awesome though, and if Showbiz returns, then there is a chance of it being an outro. Also, i do not think Muse particularly like the song, seeing as it was only played 8 times during the Showbiz gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander DeLarge Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Also, i do not think Muse particularly like the song, seeing as it was only played 8 times during the Showbiz gigs. Well I mean by that logic, Futurism is liked even less considering it was played once before they got signed. Look at the setlists from that era, it was being swapped out with things like Nature_1 and Shrinking Universe and early Plug in Baby/Screenager plays. (to make it clear that this also isn't some kind of personal agenda on my part ). Alex doesn't, whatever. Again, extremely hypothetical, you might want to think about that considering you've never gotten a setlist that fans wouldn't universally accept as a dream scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 It was me who said it was bad The outro is awesome though, and if Showbiz returns, then there is a chance of it being an outro. Also, i do not think Muse particularly like the song, seeing as it was only played 8 times during the Showbiz gigs. It's not particularly bad, it's nowhere near my favourite song or anything I'm desperate to see live, nor does it seem to have a cult following that songs like Assassin, Fury etc seem to have. The entire song is quite fun to play on bass though I've already seen everything on the poll so I really wouldn't care what stuff is played, other than adding a few songs to sort out the pop-rock balance and minimise those annoying 3-minute breaks between songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duk3 Fluk3m Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Nature_1 and Shrinking Universe Damn, they are good tunes. Best parts of Hullabaloo. To Mozza, when I listen to Ashamed, i always think of a cheesy car chase movie lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Again, extremely hypothetical, you might want to think about that considering you've never gotten a setlist that fans wouldn't universally accept as a dream scenario. Nope, not really. I just like seeing rare songs get played. If they played Showbiz and I didn't see it, sure, I'd naturally be a bit gutted but I'd still be happy it was played so I could watch videos of it. Just as I've done for plenty of other rarities that I haven't seen over the last few years. Isn't that what normal people do (as opposed to, y'know, wishing bad sets on the rest of the world just so that they know how it feels)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duk3 Fluk3m Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Nope, not really. I just like seeing rare songs get played. If they played Showbiz and I didn't see it, sure, I'd naturally be a bit gutted but I'd still be happy it was played so I could watch videos of it. Just as I've done for plenty of other rarities that I haven't seen over the last few years. Isn't that what normal people do? I literally have a CD full of rarities from live shows. Only ones I am missing from recent years are the Twilight songs, The Groove and Muscle Museum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Jobby my girlfriend says you're a pleb for not putting Crying Shame on the poll. jk btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 We didn't think of doing it on gig #6 because there wasn't an established pattern. As I said earlier, you need a pattern for people to get pissed off about. Who could've expected CE and Reapers to be quite consistent until and get dropped out of nowhere? As I said earlier, Europe was going to get better treatment anyways, we have like ten things pointing to this fact, so the people who have gotten consistently better shows in general are campaigning to get even better treatment? Don't be surprised when that rubs people the wrong way. Especially with Jobby as the head of it, getting five consistently fucking amazing shows (getting more rarities in a single show than we could hope for getting across twenty) organizing a campaign to do even better throughout his upcoming five this tour. I'm simply making the argument that if you're going to screw people over on setlists, don't do it to the people who drive 5-15 hours through barren deserts to get to a single gig. Europe and the East Coast of the United States is easy mode for Muse fans. More gigs, better transit, cheaper lodging. It'd be refreshing to say the least to see the East Coast/Europe get the same STANDARD set that we've been getting. Why should Europe get different material just because they're Europe? They've been getting treated differently for the better since 2010 and it sucks. This isn't just a hardcore fan thing, it's so widely known that the group of people behind me in the seats that hadn't seen them before were joking about second night syndrome and "you'll have to go to Europe to hear that!". Same exact thing happened in the pit. As seen with other industries/entertainment mediums, your fans are your evangelists and the public (who they're trying to sell tickets to here) tends to hear these things way more than you think. Is this the kind of thing Muse wants to be known for? Systematically screwing over fans because of where they live isn't cool. I'd make the argument that this explains the boring crowds and ticket sales too. I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. NO ONE IS BLAMING YOU FOR NOT DOING ANYTHING. No one is even saying that it's your own fault (well aside from crowd reactions). We're saying that we, the Europeans, can obviously look at the US and act precautionary. Have you got it now? Okay let's move on. You do know that these shows haven't happened yet? And nope, you're just petty and no one gives a shit that you think we're asking too much by simply asking Muse for certain songs. Especially not when you're being a hypocritical elitist when it comes to the song choices saying we're picking songs for the plebs. Get over yourself. Wah wah Europe gets better sets. Yes, we know. this is Muse's fault. Not ours. You are NOT just "simply making the argument" that Muse should treat us equally or whatever. You're literally complaining because we're making polls for OUR gigs. Well hopefully you can understand why it's infuriating to see a single show in Europe get more rarities/material than we could expect to get across five or ten, because that is exactly what Jobby's gigs look like. It's even more infuriating to see a fan campaign started in order to "fix the tour" when it's been demonstrated that these tours automatically get better on the East Coast and in Europe the moment they hit the East Coast and Europe. Not to mention it's been started by someone who has gotten so fucking lucky it's insane to think that he's asking for more, because let's be honest, these polls are selfish in nature. Get a flight for $47/$150 max round trip, you'll be spending less travel being able to access five/six shows in Paris/London than I spend getting to one. If I wanted a comparable set, I'd be spending a thousand, minimum. Not to mention we don't have comparable worker's rights so it'd be even more difficult to take such a vacation. North Americans have it the worst because transit sucks, it's expensive, lodging is generally more expensive and you have the alternative of going up north (expensive) going south (expensive), going East (very expensive) or going West (very expensive) or settling for a mediocre set because of some geographical/crowd bias nonsense. I have no sympathy for people who are a couple hours away from an airport capable of taking them to a country with a 4-6 night residency for less than $300 I can understand that it's infuriating. What we're questioning is that you blame the fans for it, and that you blame us for making sure that we don't get the same treatment that you did. I mean the only difference that this poll could possibly make is that ONE request per gig will be played. That's it. You're making such a huge deal out of this that it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I can just imagine this happening in 2001/2002 during the OoS tour and you getting pissed off at us for requesting songs at our gigs despite the US getting no gigs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Imagine if we did it at the gig instead of on twitter beforehand. "Play Assassin!!!" Alex on the board: "Greedy, selfish bastards". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo_musero Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think fans are not to blame for this situation. We have our rights to do a poll, request for songs in our European gigs, and US fans could do exactly the same. Maybe this won't work, it's possible, but why not? Also, it's fun to know how songs fan would like to hear on tour . I don't think there's a need to be harsh with it, it means no harm to anyone. Maybe it's a band's problem. I can agree they might prefer to play on other places than US, based on setlists and live performance. But, and I'll open the Pandora's box in here (God help me ), I must say I compared videos from US gigs and European ones and the crowd are way, way more active on European ones. And, if the band doesn't "feel it", it's a possible explanation of this. I've always seen concerts as a kind of communion between crowd and band, and I think that's lacking. No offense intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanp16 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Get in the fucking robot Shinji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToriB Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Meme is taken so I think I'll go with Summer-Colored High School ★ Adolescent Record – A Summer At School On An Island Where I Contemplate How The First Day After I Transferred, I Ran Into A Childhood Friend And Was Forced To Join The Journalism Club Where While My Days As A Paparazzi Kid With Great Scoops Made Me Rather Popular Among The Girls, But Strangely My Camera Is Full Of Panty Shots, And Where My Candid Romance Is Going. – Looks great on posters. First gig is in my bedroom. I hope you won't be offended by this but - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonisdead Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Let it go. It doesn't matter. JFC how old are you two? I can't believe this argument is STILL happening - here's all that needs to be said (as many have said before me): Ashamed wasn't on the poll because there's no chance they're going to play it. The idea is to ask them to play something that's even remotely plausible. If you want to ask them to play Ashamed do it yourself! The other forum members aren't responsible for organising gig requests on your behalf for gigs they're not even going to. The polls are a good idea. If anybody has a problem with a shite Showbiz b-side not being on the list, despite Showbiz which typically has the Ashamed outro ( the best part of that B-side tbh) after it being near the top of the list, then I have no words. This only reinforces what I was talking about. Fans not supporting other fans. Yes, I'm salty about Ashamed not being on this poll, and I'm largely being told to shut up about it by a self proclaimed "rarity collector" like Dockertae and Jobby who act like experts on what's plausible or not plausible to be played simply because they've heard a butt load of rarities, as if that qualifies you to be an expert on the subject. For me this was never about European fans vs. US fans, although it can certainly feel that way because of the cold, tactless responses I've been getting. Edited January 25, 2016 by jonisdead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobby Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 who act like experts on what's plausible or not plausible to be played simply because they've heard a butt load of rarities i mean like wat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I think fans are not to blame for this situation. We have our rights to do a poll, request for songs in our European gigs, and US fans could do exactly the same. Maybe this won't work, it's possible, but why not? Also, it's fun to know how songs fan would like to hear on tour . I don't think there's a need to be harsh with it, it means no harm to anyone. Maybe it's a band's problem. I can agree they might prefer to play on other places than US, based on setlists and live performance. But, and I'll open the Pandora's box in here (God help me ), I must say I compared videos from US gigs and European ones and the crowd are way, way more active on European ones. And, if the band doesn't "feel it", it's a possible explanation of this. I've always seen concerts as a kind of communion between crowd and band, and I think that's lacking. No offense intended I'd have been willing to say this is true about the US crowds before the Canada gigs. And it still would be a huge dick move to penalize people for not behaving how the band feels is "appropriate." However, those Canadian crowds looked the same, and got massively better sets on average. And a band member raved about how they loved playing there. So, that doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I've only been to one show in 2007 until last year (werchter ) and that show in 2007 was 15 songs long without any rarity and I loved watching every single Japanese or European show with great songs in it and I loved Mayan. Am I retarded? Edited January 25, 2016 by Nicklord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentsatellite Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 You certainly make poor word choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo_musero Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'd have been willing to say this is true about the US crowds before the Canada gigs. And it still would be a huge dick move to penalize people for not behaving how the band feels is "appropriate." However, those Canadian crowds looked the same, and got massively better sets on average. And a band member raved about how they loved playing there. So, that doesn't add up. Yeah, it's and undoubtedly dick move, but that's maybe what they are thinking. I can't think about any other possible explanation, but the sets are definitely lacking on US. I saw combinatons of passive crowds with great setlists so, who knows... Maybe some kind of prejudice when they play on US? I'm not so sure. Let's see what happens when they come to Europe, maybe we're on to shitty setlists too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 You certainly make poor word choices. Nice response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'd have been willing to say this is true about the US crowds before the Canada gigs. And it still would be a huge dick move to penalize people for not behaving how the band feels is "appropriate." However, those Canadian crowds looked the same, and got massively better sets on average. And a band member raved about how they loved playing there. So, that doesn't add up. Better sets on average, ok. "Massively", maybe not. But then again, I don't think they see it that way. You say "penalize", they probably think "adapt to the local demand". Not saying it isn't detrimental to the hardcore fans, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklord Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Better sets on average, ok. "Massively", maybe not. But then again, I don't think they see it that way. You say "penalize", they probably think "adapt to the local demand". Not saying it isn't detrimental to the hardcore fans, though. Yeah, Muse is not like: "Oh, we are gonna play all those poppy songs because FUCK MURICA" they are like: "Oh, we are gonna play all those poppy songs because they seem to be really popular here" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Except for that one gig when they skipped the piano slot, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozza Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah, Muse is not like: "Oh, we are gonna play all those poppy songs because FUCK MURICA" they are like: "Oh, we are gonna play all those poppy songs because they seem to be really popular here" Depends also on how long the sets are in Europe, if all the props work, how the visuals are. If Europe gets the better Canadian sets as the baseline with a few different rotations then I see your point. If however Europe gets a longer set consistently with more things seemingly done off-the-cuff then it's possible that US fans could feel a bit aggrieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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