Psycho/Drones General Tour Discussion Thread

[Alexander DeLarge]

Also, when did I act like this was some 'humanitarian cause'? Bloody hell, I just thought it'd be a more effective way of getting a couple of songs played that probably wouldn't otherwise

 

Oh, you mean the songs they've already promised to play over there? Those songs? Showbiz and Assassin? Well I'm glad you're going to be able to tweet them "hey, remember when you said/promised you'd play these two songs? Well they're the top two requested tracks online so here's even more reason to play them!"

 

Weird how you seemed totally fine with the poll/plan when you were arguing for Ashamed to be on there. Then it turned into 'pleb people voting for pleb songs' and how we should've done rarer stuff, now it's like morally wrong or some shit lmao.

 

I wasn't fine with it, I was just commenting on the nonsensical idea of doing another poll after it didn't work when they had an official poll themselves. Then you guys went off about Ashamed not being popular so it doesn't deserve a campaign of its own and I jumped in saying it's just as probable as Futurism was three or four years ago.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Alexander DeLarge

[jonisdead]

It's also easy to say because I'm not that much of a spiteful dick...?

 

I don't get why anyone would wish bad setlists on other countries/cities.

 

Weird how you seemed totally fine with the poll/plan when you were arguing for Ashamed to be on there. Then it turned into 'pleb people voting for pleb songs' and how we should've done rarer stuff, now it's like morally wrong or some shit lmao.

 

Also, when did I act like this was some 'humanitarian cause'? Bloody hell, I just thought it'd be a more effective way of getting a couple of songs played that probably wouldn't otherwise

 

This entire exercise for me has just been passing the time between then and now, I never had any expectations that this poll would accomplish anything, because nothing ever happens in the US on the part of fans in that way. The only time anything ever happens here is when the band feels 'generous' enough to play some track they deem 'obscure' that we've all been clamoring for.

 

For I while I'd forgotten how much of a pair of shitposters ADL and Jon were. Ok we got your point: the rest of the world should get bad setlists. It's fortunate fans in Sweden didn't go by that logic last tour. :-]

 

Quite kind of you to call me a shitposter when you were the one who invalidated my original post about Ashamed. I wouldn't ever wish poor setlists upon anyone, but it's obnoxious to see people talking about how 'yes yes this is quite plausible hmmm yes this rarity and this rarity have a decent shot of being played' based on nothing at all besides personal experience based on a selection bias that Muse has on Europe over the US to give this type of preferential treatment. A fan that holds up a sign for The Small Print in the UK would have a far better chance of that getting played there vs in the US, because I saw this fail firsthand at the gigs I went to.

[kueller]

I'll start a Muse tribute band that will tour the bwest coast and play all the rarities.

 

What should I call it?

 

I was thiking Meme. Just Meme.

 

Meme is taken so I think I'll go with Summer-Colored High School ★ Adolescent Record – A Summer At School On An Island Where I Contemplate How The First Day After I Transferred, I Ran Into A Childhood Friend And Was Forced To Join The Journalism Club Where While My Days As A Paparazzi Kid With Great Scoops Made Me Rather Popular Among The Girls, But Strangely My Camera Is Full Of Panty Shots, And Where My Candid Romance Is Going. –

 

Looks great on posters. First gig is in my bedroom.

[Jobby]

Oh, you mean the songs they've already promised to play over there? Those songs? Showbiz and Assassin? Well I'm glad you're going to be able to tweet them "hey, remember when you said/promised you'd play these two songs? Well they're the top two requested tracks online so here's even more reason to play them!"

 

I wouldn't say either were really promised. Well, maybe Assassin for Belfast. Showbiz seemed like a 'maybe' at best, and only for two specific cities. Even then, there was no guarantee (and there still isn't) that Showbiz or Assassin would actually end up in the top two. If they do, then hopefully the hashtag will result in getting them played more often and in other places.

 

k I'm out now, there really isn't any point trying to explain it anymore. Again, pm me if your knickers are really that twisted over anything, no need to clog the thread though. Don't like it, don't vote on it kids

[Zepp]

Quite kind of you to call me a shitposter when you were the one who invalidated my original post about Ashamed. I wouldn't ever wish poor setlists upon anyone, but it's obnoxious to see people talking about how 'yes yes this is quite plausible hmmm yes this rarity and this rarity have a decent shot of being played' based on nothing at all besides personal experience based on a selection bias that Muse has on Europe over the US to give this type of preferential treatment. A fan that holds up a sign for The Small Print in the UK would have a far better chance of that getting played there vs in the US, because I saw this fail firsthand at the gigs I went to.

 

It's not as bad as calling someone a dick out of the blue, surely? And I don't understand why you got so upset \o/. You thought it should be included (Jobby's explanation notwithstanding), I disagreed, that's all. I don't wield any authority in that matter. But still, mind explaining why you cared so much about adding it if this whole thing in itself is morally wrong/ineffective/useless/unfair? It seems to me you're desperately trying to slag this initiative off, one way or another.

[Citizen Erased 01]

let's all just agree that Muse are dicks and move on

[Mozza]

After three shows I'd seen:

 

Forced In

The Groove

Muscle Museum

Showbiz

Space Dementia

Citizen Erased

Apocalypse Please

Sing For Absolution

Butterflies and Hurricanes

Ruled by Secrecy

Take a Bow

Map of the Problematique

Assassin

City of Delusion

Hoodoo

 

Muse are so ageist!

[jonisdead]

It's not as bad as calling someone a dick out of the blue, surely? And I don't understand why you got so upset \o/. You thought it should be included (Jobby's explanation notwithstanding), I disagreed, that's all. I don't wield any authority in that matter. But still, mind explaining why you cared so much about adding it if this whole thing in itself is morally wrong/ineffective/useless/unfair? It seems to me you're desperately trying to slag this initiative off, one way or another.

 

I'm really not, I still simply think it's stupid that the song suggestion was deliberately left off of the list after Jobby put out an open call for suggestions, with the added caveat of it being subject to whatever he deemed 'worthy' of a list. Just a lot of pretension where there needn't be. Your comment just kind of set the tone for the pages long discussion that was to come about how 'stupid' a suggestion it was and how other songs are more worth putting on a list. None of it all really matters in the end anyways but you would expect a mutually cooperative fanbase to say "sure thing dude" rather than try to write you off a million different ways about why your idea is 'shit'.

[Bumpypotato]

I'm really not, I still simply think it's stupid that the song suggestion was deliberately left off of the list after Jobby put out an open call for suggestions, with the added caveat of it being subject to whatever he deemed 'worthy' of a list. Just a lot of pretension where there needn't be. Your comment just kind of set the tone for the pages long discussion that was to come about how 'stupid' a suggestion it was and how other songs are more worth putting on a list. None of it all really matters in the end anyways but you would expect a mutually cooperative fanbase to say "sure thing dude" rather than try to write you off a million different ways about why your idea is 'shit'.

 

Let it go. It doesn't matter.

[Hat]

Let's be honest. Europe was always going to get exactly what they're asking for so I don't see the point of this little poll other than having the ability to tweet spam the band/crew with numbers they already know people want.

 

It's easy to be a critic of our actions when you have the benefit of hindsight. We did signs both tours, and again, how were we supposed to know that our signs would be ignored (on a multiple night residency) while Tweets seem to work everywhere but here (including single nights), when they used to be entirely ignored quite universally?

 

I'm saying the setlists should remain stagnant so everyone knows how much it sucks because I'm sick of these pricks from the East Coast and Europe (that can not relate to getting bad setlists consistently) to suck it up and deal with it or travel elsewhere (because why do 5 shows with generic/bad setlists when you can do 1 on the East Coast which will likely be better due to location/crowd bias for the same price?). Alternatively, they could you know, give a really strong set that people are happy with every single night everywhere.

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. Europe got majorly screwed with the setlist polls back in 2010, and Muse did RARELY listen to requests before like 2013. Yes England has gotten a mini tour with rarities, but that was after Muse had been saying they'd do it for like 8 years.

 

We're not critizicing your actions. No one is complaining because you didn't try to get more rarities played. We're saying that being against Europe doing it because you didn't think of doing it is frankly childish. Since the US got screwed over and Europe could basically watch it in real-time, we CAN actually try to do something about it before they get here. Sucks to be you but wanting us to have it just as bad just so we know how it feels is really, really petty.

[ryanp16]

Sucks to be you but wanting us to have it just as bad just so we know how it feels is really, really petty.

 

I've tried to keep out of this whole thing but this describes my feelings perfectly.

[Hat]

I mean most of us aren't gonna experience these rarities anyway. I have been all for the signs and such in the US becaue honestly, the best that most of us can hope for is to get youtube videos of these songs. I am not expecting to ever see something like Micro Cuts, City of Delusion or Sing For Absolution, but I'm still excited to see Muse perform them in their current form, and if I'm lucky I can even see a pro-shot of it.

 

I live in Sweden, and it won't be any different for me than it is for you guys from the US once Muse decides to bring out Showbiz in France or England. I'll still watch it the same way you will.

[Alexander DeLarge]

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. Europe got majorly screwed with the setlist polls back in 2010, and Muse did RARELY listen to requests before like 2013. Yes England has gotten a mini tour with rarities, but that was after Muse had been saying they'd do it for like 8 years.

 

We're not critizicing your actions. No one is complaining because you didn't try to get more rarities played. We're saying that being against Europe doing it because you didn't think of doing it is frankly childish. Since the US got screwed over and Europe could basically watch it in real-time, we CAN actually try to do something about it before they get here. Sucks to be you but wanting us to have it just as bad just so we know how it feels is really, really petty.

 

We didn't think of doing it on gig #6 because there wasn't an established pattern. As I said earlier, you need a pattern for people to get pissed off about. Who could've expected CE and Reapers to be quite consistent until and get dropped out of nowhere?

 

As I said earlier, Europe was going to get better treatment anyways, we have like ten things pointing to this fact, so the people who have gotten consistently better shows in general are campaigning to get even better treatment? Don't be surprised when that rubs people the wrong way. Especially with Jobby as the head of it, getting five consistently fucking amazing shows (getting more rarities in a single show than we could hope for getting across twenty) organizing a campaign to do even better throughout his upcoming five this tour.

 

I'm simply making the argument that if you're going to screw people over on setlists, don't do it to the people who drive 5-15 hours through barren deserts to get to a single gig. Europe and the East Coast of the United States is easy mode for Muse fans. More gigs, better transit, cheaper lodging. It'd be refreshing to say the least to see the East Coast/Europe get the same STANDARD set that we've been getting. Why should Europe get different material just because they're Europe? They've been getting treated differently for the better since 2010 and it sucks.

 

This isn't just a hardcore fan thing, it's so widely known that the group of people behind me in the seats that hadn't seen them before were joking about second night syndrome and "you'll have to go to Europe to hear that!". Same exact thing happened in the pit. As seen with other industries/entertainment mediums, your fans are your evangelists and the public (who they're trying to sell tickets to here) tends to hear these things way more than you think. Is this the kind of thing Muse wants to be known for? Systematically screwing over fans because of where they live isn't cool. I'd make the argument that this explains the boring crowds and ticket sales too.

[Alexander DeLarge]

I mean most of us aren't gonna experience these rarities anyway. I have been all for the signs and such in the US becaue honestly, the best that most of us can hope for is to get youtube videos of these songs. I am not expecting to ever see something like Micro Cuts, City of Delusion or Sing For Absolution, but I'm still excited to see Muse perform them in their current form, and if I'm lucky I can even see a pro-shot of it.

Well hopefully you can understand why it's infuriating to see a single show in Europe get more rarities/material than we could expect to get across five or ten, because that is exactly what Jobby's gigs look like. It's even more infuriating to see a fan campaign started in order to "fix the tour" when it's been demonstrated that these tours automatically get better on the East Coast and in Europe the moment they hit the East Coast and Europe. Not to mention it's been started by someone who has gotten so fucking lucky it's insane to think that he's asking for more, because let's be honest, these polls are selfish in nature.

 

I live in Sweden, and it won't be any different for me than it is for you guys from the US once Muse decides to bring out Showbiz in France or England. I'll still watch it the same way you will.

 

Get a flight for $47/$150 max round trip, you'll be spending less travel being able to access five/six shows in Paris/London than I spend getting to one. If I wanted a comparable set, I'd be spending a thousand, minimum. Not to mention we don't have comparable worker's rights so it'd be even more difficult to take such a vacation.

 

North Americans have it the worst because transit sucks, it's expensive, lodging is generally more expensive and you have the alternative of going up north (expensive) going south (expensive), going East (very expensive) or going West (very expensive) or settling for a mediocre set because of some geographical/crowd bias nonsense. I have no sympathy for people who are a couple hours away from an airport capable of taking them to a country with a 4-6 night residency for less than $300

Edited January 25, 2016 by Alexander DeLarge

[Dockertae]

JFC how old are you two? I can't believe this argument is STILL happening - here's all that needs to be said (as many have said before me):

 

Ashamed wasn't on the poll because there's no chance they're going to play it. The idea is to ask them to play something that's even remotely plausible.

 

If you want to ask them to play Ashamed do it yourself! The other forum members aren't responsible for organising gig requests on your behalf for gigs they're not even going to.

[Alexander DeLarge]

JFC how old are you two? I can't believe this argument is STILL happening - here's all that needs to be said (as many have said before me):

 

Ashamed wasn't on the poll because there's no chance they're going to play it. The idea is to ask them to play something that's even remotely plausible.

 

If you want to ask them to play Ashamed do it yourself! The other forum members aren't responsible for organising gig requests on your behalf for gigs they're not even going to.

 

Because you know, Yes Please/Agitated/Futurism/The Groove/Uno/Muscle Museum/Assassin/Apocalypse Please were totally likely to be played up until a year or two ago, right? Same applies to Hyper Music/Micro Cuts, material that was completely dead before Reading&Leeds, this quote comes to mind "It's probably the last time some of these songs will ever be played live again,"

 

It's easy to say shit like that when you have the benefit of retrospect on your side.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Alexander DeLarge

[Dockertae]

Because you know, Yes Please/Agitated/Futurism/The Groove/Uno/Muscle Museum/Assassin/Apocalypse Please were totally likely to be played up until a year or two ago, right? Same applies to Hyper Music/Micro Cuts, material that was completely dead before Reading&Leeds, this quote comes to mind "It's probably the last time some of these songs will ever be played live again,"

 

It's easy to say shit like that when you have the benefit of retrospect on your side.

 

It doesn't change the fact that it's less plausible than anything on the poll. Besides, almost everything you've listed there have been played regularly at some point - some of them are among Muse's most played songs.

 

You're not even going to these gigs, no-one would have voted for Ashamed. I mean there's a point where it just doesn't matter anymore surely?

[Alexander DeLarge]

It doesn't change the fact that it's less plausible than anything on the poll. Besides, almost everything you've listed there have been played regularly at some point - some of them are among Muse's most played songs.

 

You're not even going to these gigs, no-one would have voted for Ashamed. I mean there's a point where it just doesn't matter anymore surely?

 

It's been played more than Futurism (even after the Zepp and the Psycho Tour gigs) and more recently before bringing some of those songs back. I don't care about the polls, the polls won't do anything other than confirm that the people who have been bothering them about Showbiz and Assassin in London still want Showbiz and Assassin in London. I just find the idea of Europeans asking for even more than they've been given annoying.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Alexander DeLarge

[Duk3 Fluk3m]

The polls are a good idea. If anybody has a problem with a shite Showbiz b-side not being on the list, despite Showbiz which typically has the Ashamed outro ( the best part of that B-side tbh) after it being near the top of the list, then I have no words.

[ryanp16]

I just find the idea of Europeans asking for even more than they've been given annoying.

 

Yet earlier you were complaining that we weren't voting for even rarer songs than the ones topping the poll. How does that make sense?

[Alexander DeLarge]

Yet earlier you were complaining that we weren't voting for even rarer songs than the ones topping the poll. How does that make sense?

 

I can't be annoyed by both? 2010 votes were Assassin/B&H/CE/Bliss, material they were literally playing the last tour consistently through when given a selection of every song they'd ever done, or at least most.

 

Then all the European fans were surprised when they took CE/B&H/Bliss, material they likely intended to play anyways instead of pulling out something like Showbiz. I can't believe how badly the fans screwed those polls up, and that was when it was official and actually mattered.

[Mozza]

The polls are a good idea. If anybody has a problem with a shite Showbiz b-side not being on the list, despite a song which typically has the Ashamed outro ( the best part of that B-side tbh) after it being near the top of the list, then I have no words.

 

Sometimes the genuine comments on the shortness and pop-heavy slant of the setlist does actually turn into the caricature 'the hardcore fans just want songs that are rare rather than good'.

[Alexander DeLarge]

Sometimes the genuine comments on the shortness and pop-heavy slant of the setlist does actually turn into the caricature 'the hardcore fans just want songs that are rare rather than good'.

 

Well I suppose if Mozza says Ashamed isn't a good song, it is decreed that Ashamed is objectively bad and it will never have a chance of getting played because no one will ask for it.

[Jobby]

I really wouldn't bother trying to explain this stuff anymore guys, they aren't gonna get it. It's all been said god knows how many times now.

 

Also - again - this has never been billed as any kind of 'fix the tour' campaign. Just a way of organising the hashtags that people already do as well as potentially getting some songs played that haven't been in rotation or played at all in a long time. Personally, I only see that as a positive thing, regardless of whether or not I actually see the songs (to make it clear that this also isn't some kind of personal agenda on my part ). Alex doesn't, whatever.

[serpentsatellite]

I would have to say that travel on the East Coast isn't always easy during January...