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arent you basically repeating what she just said? It's the "slash women" part that is the issue.

 

So it would be fine if he were singing about dudes?

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I said "people (slash women?)". Sippe responded that the "slash women" was the issue, so obviously if he weren't singing about women it would be fine.

 

My question: If Matt were gay and singing about dudes, could you plausibly see anyone scrambling to find reasons why the song is offensive? I can't.

Edited by Espectro Cuatro

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So it would be fine if he were singing about dudes?

 

I said "people (slash women?)". Sippe responded that the "slash women" was the issue, so obviously if he weren't singing about women it would be fine.

 

My question: If Matt were gay and singing about dudes, could you plausibly see anyone scrambling to find reasons why the song is offensive? I can't.

Oh wow, that desperate grasping for straws.

 

First of all, if you ignore the difference between a gender who has historically been portrayed as deceptive holes that men should watch out for and one who has not in this case, you're delusional. I can't believe that the argument "yeah but what if the same thing happened to men?" still exists when it gets refuted all the fucking time. Because the same thing DOESN'T happen to men. We AREN'T objects in the majority of every story ever, and we never need a past of sexual abuse in order to explain why we're tough characters.

 

Now all of this is basically irrelevant, because this isn't an either/or situation. If his metaphor wasn't about women, that doesn't mean it would have to be about men. Just because you don't compare black holes to women, that doesn't mean you have to compare them to men. That I need to explain this to you is frankly ridiculous.

Edited by Tjet

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What Matt says about Supermassive reminds me of the sort of things both sexes say when they're frustrated. I wouldn't really call it sexist, seems quite immature though.

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I've never thought of this and this could say quite a lot about him. There's some other songs that could fit this theme too.

 

Obsession with or paranoia about the destructive has been a theme with Muse since, ever. Whether along the Sunburn/Showbiz lines, or focusing on the dark aspects of society/politics; it's why Matt gets called dark and negative all the time (in interviews, to his face) and it's not shocking that that applies to his view of relationships, tbh.

 

I find that same sort of metaphor to be the only way the conflicting lyrics on Abso really make sense, too. Like TiRO, for example; being jaded and negative about a partner or relationship, but yet irresistibly drawn to it.

Or something like Endlessly, which is more on the romantic side, with "the moment" being the (presumed) inevitable dissolution of the relationship and eternal heartbreak.

 

I've been really intrigued by how prevalent a lot of Matt's themes have been throughout the years; even reading the old articles they put up pictures of on IG with stuff blacked out there was a ton of "wow, that's exactly what Drones ended up being about."

 

Black holes are the cancer of the universe, they feed off their surroundings and use the sustenance to continue growing infinitely. This being a metaphor for narcissistic people (slash women?) who suck the life out of you to feed their own ego.

 

Basically the same meaning as Dead Inside but a lot more opaque in its description.

 

It's certainly more complicated than that; black holes are believed to be integral parts of the galaxies that surround them, not only drawing in and destroying parts of them, but playing a fundamental part in the galaxies' development (ie: they wouldn't exist without them.)

That makes the metaphor a little deeper than narcissism. Or at least more like the "women, can't live with em, can't live without em" cliche - except with a much more destructive flair.

 

Dead Inside is the same basic theme, but it's easier to swallow stuff when it's about one specific person. Sure, you can make a case for it being blamey, or immature, but one would be an idiot to say that one particular woman can't be a master of manipulation, and center of a destructive relationship.

It's when you say "well, all women/men/cats/dogs/hamsters" are like that, that it's a bit grim. (And yeah, a lot immature.)

Edited by SerpentSatellite

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I love BHAR, but as you've said, it touches diverse moods and styles throughout itself.

I'd personally split it roughly in three parts, paying more attention to music than lyrics and leaving Take A Bow on its own as the "take-off" track.

 

1. Space rock/pop zone (Starlight, Supermassive, Map)

2. War-Political-Conspiracy zone (from Soldier's Poem to Exo-Politics)

3. Western/Latin zone (City Of Delusion, Hoodoo, Knights).

 

I'm going to start thinking about BH&R like The Crystal Maze. :p

 

As for Supermassive Black Hole, how could it be sexist if it's about a specific person? Even if it is more general, it could be taken as more of a cristisicm of the psyche, rather than "women" per se. Still more interesting lyrically than post-Resistance stuff.

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I'm going to start thinking about BH&R like The Crystal Maze. :p

 

As for Supermassive Black Hole, how could it be sexist if it's about a specific person? Even if it is more general, it could be taken as more of a cristisicm of the psyche, rather than "women" per se. Still more interesting lyrically than post-Resistance stuff.

The literal description Matt gave was apparently "and that's what women are like" though. Who is this specific person that it would be about?`

 

And what does "criticism of the psyche" even mean?

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One day I'm going to venture back into MM and people will actually be discussing songs and not what is and isn't sexist/racist. Today isn't that day though.

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I thought I heard him discuss sbh being about the oil industry/Unsustainable dependence on fossil fuels.

 

Am I making that up?

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I could probably dig up the article if I wasn't on the mobile device being a pain; I clearly remember it wasn't a big name magazine I'd heard of before, Muse was on the cover, and it had a blue tint for some reason. Matt in that white shirt and suspenders get up.

 

Matt makes some comment in it about how basically the Iraq War was justified because the economy will collapse without oil, and pisses off the interviewer.

It wasn't in relation to SMBH, but I think Soldier's Poem.

 

And I think the SMBH quote was nearly exactly: 'it’s kind of comparing women to the center of the galaxy, like this gigantic black hole that you powerlessly get sucked into. What I’m trying to say in a roundabout way is, that’s what women are like.'

Which was the description he said after saying something dumb about the Queen and robots, iirc.

 

I remember it not being a shining moment for Matt in interviews. On the level of him mocking fans singing that Psycho riff on that one radio interview, even.

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I could probably dig up the article if I wasn't on the mobile device being a pain; I clearly remember it wasn't a big name magazine I'd heard of before, Muse was on the cover, and it had a blue tint for some reason. Matt in that white shirt and suspenders get up.

 

Matt makes some comment in it about how basically the Iraq War was justified because the economy will collapse without oil, and pisses off the interviewer.

It wasn't in relation to SMBH, but I think Soldier's Poem.

 

And I think the SMBH quote was nearly exactly: 'it¡¯s kind of comparing women to the center of the galaxy, like this gigantic black hole that you powerlessly get sucked into. What I¡¯m trying to say in a roundabout way is, that¡¯s what women are like.'

Which was the description he said after saying something dumb about the Queen and robots, iirc.

 

I remember it not being a shining moment for Matt in interviews. On the level of him mocking fans singing that Psycho riff on that one radio interview, even.

 

If you manage to find that, could you link it, please? :)

And about the Psycho reception by the fans, I don't think he intended to mock them: he rather was mocking the riff itself (he has called it a "cheap ass riff" many times).

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I searched all over, and then found it transcribed on Musewiki. :chuckle: I always forget to look there; probably because no one updates it with new stuff. :(

 

http://musewiki.org/Hot_Press_2006-07-26_%E2%80%93_Have_we_got_Muse_for_you

 

Here's the cover: r1zvj5.jpg

 

And this is the other interview, if people are wondering. Bit starts at around 7:40.

 

 

Knowing this was about the sixth interview at the same time in which Matt had talked about the Psycho riff in a negative fashion, I'd be inclined to think you could be right, and he was more talking about the riff than the fans... but it would still feel a bit like "foot in mouth." It's not exactly flattering.

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And this is the other interview, if people are wondering. Bit starts at around 7:40.

 

 

Knowing this was about the sixth interview at the same time in which Matt had talked about the Psycho riff in a negative fashion, I'd be inclined to think you could be right, and he was more talking about the riff than the fans... but it would still feel a bit like "foot in mouth." It's not exactly flattering.

 

Nah, nowt wrong with that imo. He's just playfully impersonating how lairy the crowds got for the riff, nothing negative in it from what I can tell. It's a pretty accurate impersonation as well tbh, certainly judging from the two times I saw it :chuckle:

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I searched all over, and then found it transcribed on Musewiki. :chuckle: I always forget to look there; probably because no one updates it with new stuff. :(

 

http://musewiki.org/Hot_Press_2006-07-26_%E2%80%93_Have_we_got_Muse_for_you

 

Here's the cover: r1zvj5.jpg

 

And this is the other interview, if people are wondering. Bit starts at around 7:40.

 

 

Knowing this was about the sixth interview at the same time in which Matt had talked about the Psycho riff in a negative fashion, I'd be inclined to think you could be right, and he was more talking about the riff than the fans... but it would still feel a bit like "foot in mouth." It's not exactly flattering.

 

Thanks! :)

Uhm, it's a indeed bit controversial review, actually. Gambling, Middle East Wars for oil, alleged sexism... Queen Elizabeth (*shivers*).

The inteviewer being quite evasive about the war in the East baffles me.

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SFA was a time when Muse did good, powerful slow songs

 

Blackout, Invincible, and Exo III comes to mind after SFA.

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Thanks! :)

Uhm, it's a indeed bit controversial review, actually. Gambling, Middle East Wars for oil, alleged sexism... Queen Elizabeth (*shivers*).

The inteviewer being quite evasive about the war in the East baffles me.

 

The interviewer points out (not to the band) that he's very much not in agreement with Matt's statements, but that he decided to politely ignore turning the interview into an argument out of respect for him.

I find it respectful and strong, not baffling in the slightest. Matt's statement was pretty... well, awful, really.

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The soldier thing was nice, really.

 

What he said about the Iraq War being possibly justified because without the oil our economies would crash is what upset the interviewer.

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That probably sounded better in his head. I mean, he makes a not-so-stupid point when he says that it would be kind of hypocritical to sit there and claim how wrong the war is, but benefiting from it in the end. I think that was the main idea. And on such a topic you get easily carried away from meaning "understandable" to saying "justified", so yeah I agree that the interviewer made a smart move. Kinda odd that we're discussing at length an interview from 10 years ago though.

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BH&R is like second to OoS in the amount of BS in interviews. I think he only stopped with the conspiracy aspects when he started attracting a crowd that took him seriously.

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stockholm... when people tell how can I listen to this because you can't understand what he's even saying. I don't know where to begin with these people...

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The soldier thing was nice, really.

 

What he said about the Iraq War being possibly justified because without the oil our economies would crash is what upset the interviewer.

 

Maybe it's not what it looks like: he could mean it was justified BY the West politics to take prime resources from those territories, and not that he himself justified that. But now I can understand where the interviewer may come from with that.

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Maybe it's not what it looks like: he could mean it was justified BY the West politics to take prime resources from those territories, and not that he himself justified that. But now I can understand where the interviewer may come from with that.

 

Yeah, that's what I took from it too. Obviously Matt could actually be justifying it but something could also easily be getting lost in the translation so I'd be hesitant to make much of it. I'm pretty sure he also condemned invading Iraq a few times back then, didn't he (in fact, wasn't that roughly what Take A Bow was about)?

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