Playing Unsustainable

[james90]

Continuing the discussion from the other thread, any ideas for the middle part of the song?

Given some of the stuff that was sort of 'hidden' in the main part... well, at least I have a better idea of the thought process now. 

I'll get a flashy trailer video up soon, and then the actual video with the 10000000% correct effect... which will then turn out to be only 9999999% correct like that guy who covered MOTP and had his whammy malfunction on the first measure. 

But it happens to the best of us. Unless we don't actually use a MIDI track like that one guy who used raw talent instead. 

[order66]

@james90 Does your Whammy have a slight pause when switching settings with program change commands? Mine cuts out for a very short time while switching but it's noticeable in a recording, and makes unsustainable sound a bit average. 

 

It's a whammy 4 so just wondering if the 5 and DT don't have this delay..

[james90]

1 hour ago, order66 said:

@james90 Does your Whammy have a slight pause when switching settings with program change commands? Mine cuts out for a very short time while switching but it's noticeable in a recording, and makes unsustainable sound a bit average. 

 

It's a whammy 4 so just wondering if the 5 and DT don't have this delay..

 

Nope, but I wouldn't think it's your pedal. I've not used the whammy 4 recently, but don't recall anything like that happening (even with the faster switching commands)

Unless there's some kind of latency issue, it's most likely the timing of the MIDI events in the file. Can you post a screen shot of some of the program changes on the event list or where they happen on the grid? 

[james90]

Here it is. As close to 10000000% correct as it's going to be.

 

[Bs]

Very nice! It took me about five minutes to load the damn video but it sounds ridiculously accurate, not just the notes but the tone/effects as well. How the hell have you done that?

[james90]

5 hours ago, Bs said:

Very nice! It took me about five minutes to load the damn video but it sounds ridiculously accurate, not just the notes but the tone/effects as well. How the hell have you done that?

 

Thanks Bs, that's the next best thing to being #JaicenApproved. I'll take it. 

Five minutes? Bs, you got booted from that library. You shouldn't be stealing their wifi either.

How did I do it? Well... the 'making of' video was key in knowing what to actually play, and that helped figure out how to set the whammy up. Though it wasn't quite as simple as that, so a fair bit of trial and error was involved.

As for the sound, I haven't quite got that down. In the video it's a fuzz factory going direct, though there's some other stuff going on to make it work a bit better going after the whammy. It doesn't sound right when placed before, and when simply placed after, it just sounds bad. So I'm still experimenting with that.

 

 

[Bs]

My internet's fine, haha! I thought it was the site you'd used to upload the video or something, but never mind!

That's pretty cool. I didn't realise it was a Fuzz Factory and Whammy going together, I didn't even know that was possible without it sounding completely terrible.

I thought you might have been doing some kind amp modelling thing or something, but whatever it was sounded pretty much spot on.

[james90]

7 hours ago, Bs said:

My internet's fine, haha! I thought it was the site you'd used to upload the video or something, but never mind!

That's pretty cool. I didn't realise it was a Fuzz Factory and Whammy going together, I didn't even know that was possible without it sounding completely terrible.

I thought you might have been doing some kind amp modelling thing or something, but whatever it was sounded pretty much spot on.

 

It's uploaded here actually. Might be the fact that I took the video on my iPhone 8 and that

Yeah, you can sort of get away with using the whammy before the fuzz factory, but you need a buffer of sorts between the two. It still doesn't work the same as it does when in front of everything else though.

I don't know what was used in the actual recording - it certainly sounds like a direct fuzz factory, but for all I know he might have profiled it onto the kemper first. Maybe that's why there's still oscillation in the background even with the guitar being played.

[james90]

Perfect opportunity to use the #NotForSale hashtag but I declined the message. 

Also, anyone using cubase for this? Trying to transfer the MIDI file to a cubase project, but haven't figured out how to import the automation properly. Program changes seem to be fine though.

[nerd herd]

6 hours ago, james90 said:

Also, anyone using cubase for this? Trying to transfer the MIDI file to a cubase project, but haven't figured out how to import the automation properly. Program changes seem to be fine though.

I tried with cubase a few days ago, but it makes the automation sound all glitchy so it's not smooth at all. 

I haven't got a clue how to use it properly to set the automation to be smoother though .

[james90]

11 hours ago, nerd herd said:

I tried with cubase a few days ago, but it makes the automation sound all glitchy so it's not smooth at all. 

I haven't got a clue how to use it properly to set the automation to be smoother though .

 

Is that the file that's floating around in a certain facebook group? It shouldn't be happening with that one

And I know why it's doing it. It's just that I can't figure out how to transfer the automation data properly. Even importing the MIDI file back into Logic gives the same result... (see example below)

it seems to be a function that the DAW is responsible for, which isn't actually saved to a MIDI file.

[nerd herd]

On 3/16/2019 at 1:43 AM, james90 said:

 

Is that the file that's floating around in a certain facebook group? It shouldn't be happening with that one

And I know why it's doing it. It's just that I can't figure out how to transfer the automation data properly. Even importing the MIDI file back into Logic gives the same result... (see example below)

it seems to be a function that the DAW is responsible for, which isn't actually saved to a MIDI file.

 

It is. I can't get the whammy parts to sound the same as your video though.

Cubase shows the automation as a solid line like that picture, so I'm not sure what's causing it to sound glitchy. Maybe some MIDI setting deep in a menu I haven't found yet/don't know how to use.

 

[james90]

11 hours ago, nerd herd said:

It is. I can't get the whammy parts to sound the same as your video though.

Cubase shows the automation as a solid line like that picture, so I'm not sure what's causing it to sound glitchy. Maybe some MIDI setting deep in a menu I haven't found yet/don't know how to use.

 

 

Which whammy are you using? I've tested it with the 4 and 5, but don't have a DT. Only difference is the program change CCs

[nerd herd]

9 hours ago, james90 said:

 

Which whammy are you using? I've tested it with the 4 and 5, but don't have a DT. Only difference is the program change CCs

DT, but I'll try it with the 4 later.

[james90]

9 hours ago, nerd herd said:

DT, but I'll try it with the 4 later.

 

It might have the wrong program change CCs. I know the whammy 4 and 5 don't match what's in the manual (at least mine don't) and I have to subtract 1 from them, so I did the same for the DT. Maybe that's not the case. Does it start on -2 octave?

[nerd herd]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:38 AM, james90 said:

 

It might have the wrong program change CCs. I know the whammy 4 and 5 don't match what's in the manual (at least mine don't) and I have to subtract 1 from them, so I did the same for the DT. Maybe that's not the case. Does it start on -2 octave?

 

Thought I'd replied before but the new board keeps signing me out.

Yeah it starts on -2, so the program change CCs are right, it must be the way cubase is set so I'll mess about with it some more.

Haven't had time to try the whammy 4 yet... also might have misplaced the power supply

[james90]

4 hours ago, nerd herd said:

 

Thought I'd replied before but the new board keeps signing me out.

Yeah it starts on -2, so the program change CCs are right, it must be the way cubase is set so I'll mess about with it some more.

Haven't had time to try the whammy 4 yet... also might have misplaced the power supply

 

I think I have an extra US power supply that I can send you for some Irn Bru Xtra. Will throw in the six Boss OC-3s I received for Christmas last year as well. #naughtylist 

And that's odd. The automation looks like it should...at least for being an older version that isn't 100000000% correct 

You set both tracks up the same way for your interface yes? Unless one of the tracks got moved by accident (you should see one for automation and one for program changes) then I can only guess that it's a setting related to the interface. Did you change any of those settings? If not, I might have to look into it - I did change the default channel on my whammy 5, so that might have been copied over to the DT file somehow. You shouldn't be getting any communication between the computer and pedal if that was incorrect though.

I think Karl also said something similar was happening with the glitchy sound and his DT, so might be good to discuss it in the thread with him as well.

 

[james90]

Sorted. But then @nerd herd already knew that 

I made this to impress my bff @Bs anyway...he's out there somewhere. Probably in a library watching videos that are considered not safe for the library.

Like the buck rogers music video.

 

[Bs]

Thanks for the tonne of notifications

That's actually pretty impressive, though I don't think your playing was as clean as the last video, haha! You've got the MIDI stuff nailed though, I don't think I'd have the patience for all that!

Interestingly, Feeder have a new album out this year apparently. I liked All Bright Electric a lot so hopefully it's good. It's funny that you always mention Buck Rogers though, it would probably only be my 7th or 8th choice from that album alone, haha! If we're including songs that weren't even on it, then Just A Day tops them all, haha! 

[james90]

35 minutes ago, Bs said:

Thanks for the tonne of notifications

That's actually pretty impressive, though I don't think your playing was as clean as the last video, haha! You've got the MIDI stuff nailed though, I don't think I'd have the patience for all that!

Interestingly, Feeder have a new album out this year apparently. I liked All Bright Electric a lot so hopefully it's good. It's funny that you always mention Buck Rogers though, it would probably only be my 7th or 8th choice from that album alone, haha! If we're including songs that weren't even on it, then Just A Day tops them all, haha! 

 

Even though those were old posts, they deserved to be recognized!

Yeah I hear what you mean. Thing is that the fuzz really has to be turned up (and boosted with another pedal) to get the low notes sounding right, but the unwanted sounds are amplified more. It's a bit much, but I haven't figured out a better way to do it...yet

This is news to me. But then the only album I actually own is Polythene  Why wouldn't I mention Buck Rogers? If someone asked me to describe what one of your posts enriching digital monologues were made of...

Well, you know what the answer is... don't you? Because I really don't mind telling you... 🤭

 

[james90]

Did I break K&T (and the entire board for that matter) by posting my not quite 1000000000% correct version?

Working on the middle section of the song and it's equally as challenging. I also made a little video showing the automation and whammy program changes, but #NotForSale and that. You can find the cringeworthy edited version if you look hard enough though.

[giovannicovanni]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, I've been following the forum for a couple of months though. I'm working on a new unsustainable midi file for my Whammy 5 from scratch. However, that "wiu wiu wiu wiu" oscillating thingy sound made with +2 octaves seems pretty hard to nail. Does anyone have a midi file for it? I've read the whole topic but unfortunately every link is expired 😕 

[james90]

20 minutes ago, giovannicovanni said:

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, I've been following the forum for a couple of months though. I'm working on a new unsustainable midi file for my Whammy 5 from scratch. However, that "wiu wiu wiu wiu" oscillating thingy sound made with +2 octaves seems pretty hard to nail. Does anyone have a midi file for it? I've read the whole topic but unfortunately every link is expired 😕 

Do you mean the part towards the beginning with those fast triplets?

That's the one part I'm still not convinced about. It's difficult to tell since the original track has two guitars, and one seems to be at a slightly different pitch (not sure if it's latency related or just out of tune to begin with)

[giovannicovanni]

32 minutes ago, james90 said:

Do you mean the part towards the beginning with those fast triplets?

That's the one part I'm still not convinced about. It's difficult to tell since the original track has two guitars, and one seems to be at a slightly different pitch (not sure if it's latency related or just out of tune to begin with)

I meant the 1:32 to 1:34, 1:37 to 1:40, and 1:43 to 1:45 parts in the original recording.

Btw now that you said, I just realized that there are 2 guitar tracks, when I saw them live last month in the front, I was looking at Matt's fingerboard and whether or not he played the +2 oct parts or the string tree part ( 1:40 in the original track), he just sounded the same. The 2nd guitar track was probably playing in the background.

[james90]

On 8/11/2019 at 8:38 PM, giovannicovanni said:

I meant the 1:32 to 1:34, 1:37 to 1:40, and 1:43 to 1:45 parts in the original recording.

Btw now that you said, I just realized that there are 2 guitar tracks, when I saw them live last month in the front, I was looking at Matt's fingerboard and whether or not he played the +2 oct parts or the string tree part ( 1:40 in the original track), he just sounded the same. The 2nd guitar track was probably playing in the background.

 

I think I get what parts you mean. Is it more the timing you're having difficulty with, or just figuring out the correct automation and program changes? Most of the track can be figured out easily enough if you have the correct grid divisions. Easiest way to do it is to figure out if the part you're working on has quarter, eighth, etc notes and then adjust the grid to match. 

The first part you mention is quite tricky. I don't think he's actually playing that part in the 'Making of' video - I thought it was a 12th fret harmonic on the A string, but it seems like he's muting everything completely. 

I'm pretty sure he's playing that one live without any backing, considering it sounds different each time. The original recording has the same +2 octave part in the MIDI track, but he hits the strings above the nut the fourth (final) time it's played. 03:39 in the recording.