Too many glaringly obvious influences in one album?

[Niall]

I think at this stage where it's no longer just influences and more like references, like albums are becoming musical collage. And without a doubt the references have been increasing more and more per album. Muse are now the world's greatest pastiche band.

 

I've said in another thread Matt is like a magpie, sees something shiny and has to incorporate it. It goes for music as well as ideas. Matt goes to a Skrillex show "ooh that was cool let's incorporate it", Matt reads an online article about thermodynamics or conspiracy theories "ooh that was cool let's incorporate it", and so on. And it goes for the older influences as well. And with little regard for consistency or rigour, it would seem, and it goes far beyond reflective or nuanced inspiration to flat out co-opting.

 

I think Black Holes and Revelations was probably the first really offender here. Assassin was the sad victim of a desire to imitate Lightening Bolt and was stuffed into that mould as such.

 

And in some cases this is okay. Like Telstar in Knights of Cydonia. Perfectly legitimate considering the connection. But personally I'm growing tired of Muse changing from a band with an signature sound to a band who's signature sound is simply a jumbled pastiche of other successful artists. Next time around they may as well just sample Queen and U2.

 

I'm also growing tired of apologists who's argument against anyone being critical is essentially "Muse are awesome if you could just learn to stop thinking about it and accept it!"...(cf. recent Drowned in Sound article). And I think what most people still like about Muse it's what's left after you strip these influences out. Unfortunately what that is seems to becoming less and less substantial.

[kueller]

Assassin was the sad victim of a desire to imitate Lightening Bolt as was stuffed into that mould as such.

 

I always found Execution Commentary more of the Lightning Bolt-ish track.

[Niall]

I always found Execution Commentary more of the Lightning Bolt-ish track.

 

I think it has a lot of the noise you'd associate with it but the guitar work seems quite different to me - in any case I'd say it was not inspired by Lightening Bolt as EC was written in 96/97, where as Assassin seems demonstrably morphed from DMG to the recorded song via Dracula Mountain.

[kueller]

I think it has a lot of the noise you'd associate with it but the guitar work seems quite different to me - in any case I'd say it was not inspired by Lightening Bolt as EC was written in 96/97, where as Assassin seems demonstrably morphed from DMG to the recorded song via Dracula Mountain.

 

Well the noise in general, inaudible vocals, and repeating one riff into another. Could be a bit RatM too though, except the distorted vocals.

 

I can see the point about the time periods.

[That Little Animal]

Was this comment really necessary?

 

Absolutely not.

 

Was yours?

[Banksy.]

I think the issue with Muse taking influence from things so heavily is the fact they're never as good as their influences. If I wanted to hear a Prince song, I'd listen to Prince. I mean obviously they've always been a band which takes influences, but when they go as all out on the songs as they do here then you don't have the difference between the influences used in a single track as they did before, although going on some of the comparisons here, I'm wrong.

[beeSides]

Me and my old man were rhyming off artists the 2nd Law mimics or has similarities too today and we got one for every song, and as we all know they aren't exactly subtle.

 

So my question is: does it take anything away from the album as a whole in your opinion, are Muse losing or still finding their sound, and is it all becoming a bit too much?

 

Discuss

 

let's say for the sake of your point, that none of the tracks make me cringe...and that i like all the songs. (snort)

 

that said, there are so many other bands called to mind when listening to this album that i find it very distracting.

 

do i still like some of the songs...of course. but i've spent so much more time talking to other people about the other bands that we hear and than how it's "muse".

 

clearly they don't care about this, so ultimately the discussion doesn't matter.

[beeSides]

I think the issue with Muse taking influence from things so heavily is the fact they're never as good as their influences. If I wanted to hear a Prince song, I'd listen to Prince. I mean obviously they've always been a band which takes influences, but when they go as all out on the songs as they do here then you don't have the difference between the influences used in a single track as they did before, although going on some of the comparisons here, I'm wrong.

 

i agree with this. i don't care if they've made "organic" dubstep. bully for them.

if i want to listen to something that sounds like skrillex i'm going to listen to fucking skrillex.

 

dur.

[Em]

You must add Franz Ferdinand to the list for Panic Station.

[That Little Animal]

You must add Franz Ferdinand to the list for Panic Station.

 

Ok done.

[Gareeh]

I think some people are missing the point. Despite you (and me) liking the music does it not thoroughly disappoint you that they have turned into a glorified tribute band?

[FabriPav]

I think some people are missing the point. Despite you (and me) liking the music does it not thoroughly disappoint you that they have turned into a glorified tribute band?

 

When they ripped off Rachmaninov everything was alright?

[Gareeh]

When they ripped off Rachmaninov everything was alright?

 

Hmmm bit different than extremely obvious U2, Queen and Paul McCartney rip-offs. Rachmaninov was an influence, these are imitations.

 

Plus the Rachmaninov effort was one of a couple of influences on the album, not one out of twenty.

[FabriPav]

Hmmm bit different than extremely obvious U2, Queen and Paul McCartney rip-offs. Rachmaninov was an influence, these are imitations.

 

Plus the Rachmaninov effort was one of a couple of influences on the album, not one out of twenty.

 

In Space Dementia Matt just cut and pasted some bits of Rachmaninov's works

 

Paul McCartney?

 

I look at Big Freeze as a tribute, not an imitation

[Strangeseas]

In Space Dementia Matt just cut and pasted some bits of Rachmaninov's works

 

cut

 

cut

 

 

Lol italy, nobody likes you.

 

Try "copy".

 

I look at Big Freeze as a tribute, not an imitation

 

You should try harder to defend Big Freeze. That was poor.

But you made me laugh nevertheless.

 

Say U2 were an influence.

[FabriPav]

 

Lol italy, nobody likes you.

 

Try "copy".

 

 

 

You should try harder to defend Big Freeze. That was poor.

But you made me laugh nevertheless.

 

Say U2 were an influence.

 

YOU KNEW WHAT I MEANT

 

I look at it as a tribute mainly because of the "electrical storm" lyric

[Gareeh]

In Space Dementia Matt just cut and pasted some bits of Rachmaninov's works

 

Paul McCartney?

 

I look at Big Freeze as a tribute, not an imitation

 

Supremacy is an ode to Live and Let Die.

 

And copy and pasting is better than mixing it up but sounding the same.

[beeSides]

I think some people are missing the point. Despite you (and me) liking the music does it not thoroughly disappoint you that they have turned into a glorified tribute band?

yes.

this album is "muse does insert appropriate band name here"

 

ripping off rachmaninov was cool because there weren't other major bands bowing that much to actual classical pieces...and then it was a "muse" thing to do. when matt decided opera should be involved that would have could have been great too, but then the other patch-work, puzzle-type influences had started to work their way in and it's been extreeeemely hit or miss ever since. it's either fit in well, or it has been a disaster

[Bumpypotato]

After listening to it, only a few songs have many obvious influences.

[Niall]

yes.

this album is "muse does insert appropriate band name here"

 

ripping off rachmaninov was cool because there weren't other major bands bowing that much to actual classical pieces...and then it was a "muse" thing to do. when matt decided opera should be involved that would have could have been great too, but then the other patch-work, puzzle-type influences had started to work their way in and it's been extreeeemely hit or miss ever since. it's either fit in well, or it has been a disaster

 

Yeah. I think the thing about ripping off classical was a even more subtle that just flat out using it like in The Resistance. It was more obscure back in OoS. Classical music doesn't really have the same mainstream awareness than artists like Queen, Prince, U2, etc enjoy. And it wasn't quite the overwhelming barrage we have with TSL. Matt using a bit of Rachmaninov in Space Dementia is quite subtle compared to the torrent of references we have now.

 

By all means, refer to earlier works. That's how art works. I think the point we're making is while we agree the songs are generally pretty good and we like listening to them (to variable extents) we think the enjoyment is quite undermined by the sheer volume of influences and how it's drowning out what Muse used to be.

[beeSides]

Yeah. I think the thing about ripping off classical was a even more subtle that just flat out using it like in The Resistance. It was more obscure back in OoS. Classical music doesn't really have the same mainstream awareness than artists like Queen, Prince, U2, etc enjoy. And it wasn't quite the overwhelming barrage we have with TSL. Matt using a bit of Rachmaninov in Space Dementia is quite subtle compared to the torrent of references we have now.

 

By all means, refer to earlier works. That's how art works. I think the point we're making is while we agree the songs are generally pretty good and we like listening to them (to variable extents) we think the enjoyment is quite undermined by the sheer volume of influences and how it's drowning out what Muse used to be.

 

on this, our minds are as one

[Gareeh]

After listening to it, only a few songs have many obvious influences.

 

Right, tell me what songs don't have obvious influences?

 

And people are just being awkward comparing OoS and Absolution era "influencles" to the current era ones. It's totally different and overblown now.

[Bumpypotato]

Right, tell me what songs don't have obvious influences?

 

And people are just being awkward comparing OoS and Absolution era "influencles" to the current era ones. It's totally different and overblown now.

 

Liquid State, Explorers, Animals, Isolated System come to mind.

 

I'm not saying they don't have influences, don't get me wrong, but they don't feel any more strongly influenced then Muse have always been.

[Gareeh]

Liquid State, Explorers, Animals, Isolated System come to mind.

 

I'm not saying they don't have influences, don't get me wrong, but they don't feel any more strongly influenced then Muse have always been.

 

Isolated System?

 

The other 3 I'll let you off with but at a push they are the only 3 in the album without the overwhelming imitations.

[That Little Animal]

Isolated System?

 

The other 3 I'll let you off with but at a push they are the only 3 in the album without the overwhelming imitations.

 

Yet I find myself trying to sing along to Explorers and ending up singing Don't Stop Me Now.