_Ed_ Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I get what you are saying about meaning of symbols changing/being context-dependent, but the fact of the matter is that a Muse music video is hardly a tool that can affect a symbol's meaning in a society. Some symbols are just tainted, and their meaning can't be changed in a short time span. It's kind of like wearing a swastika t-shirt in Europe and rolling your eyes when people become offended, because you just mean it as a good luck sign in your personal context. I mean, there is such thing as a common sense. I don't see this as a free speech issue at all because it's not like anyone, let alone a government, is saying Muse can't use the symbol even in its most offensive intentional meaning. Since this video is as far from a political statement as possible, there is no reason to start banging on about free speech infringement. Sometimes something like a little cultural consideration will go far- Muse seem to agree by temporarily pulling the video. Exactly. Really well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danaetop Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Anyone else like pie? Apple is a favorite of mine. Coconut cream pie for me Ah soon this will be over and we can go back to discussing about robot dinosaurs and the skirt-clad Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolic Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Morgan definitely steals the show in that video. And i wonder how much they had to pay Kate to be in it hahaha I hope its back up #soon Probably nothing. Maybe she'll get some of the earnings though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philistine Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolic Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'd left the video on a tab so I can still watch it EDIT: Nevermind it's on Musebootlegs anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I'd left the video on a tab so I can still watch it EDIT: Nevermind it's on Musebootlegs anyways. If you click on ctrl+R or on F5 you'll be able to save it on your computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zolic Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 If you click on ctrl+R or on F5 you'll be able to save it on your computer! I saw through your evil plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 A symbol's meaning changes throughout history. The image of a rising sun has been used hundreds of times before in other cultures just like how the swastika originally represented a dharma wheel. It's the context in which we use these symbols that determine how we interpret their message. For me, I feel as though the flag is so out of context in this video that it does not in anyway promote hatred and can just be viewed as simply a flag. It's unfortunate that we live in a society that has to be so politically correct all of the time that it enables our freedom of speech. I think people need to use critical thinking a little bit more to rationalize their anger because ultimately, they should be angry about the events that took place and decisions people made, not the flag they used. However, because we don't live in a perfect society, some PR work might have to be done if this gets out of hand. Flags and symbols will forever and always stir up emotion wether positive or negative. I live in the South and there was a guy that bought land so he could put a HUGE confederate flag up. This caused an uproar where I live because of what it represents. Most people say it's JUST a Southern flag. That flag represents slavery, it represents the South wanting to secede from the Union which seems pretty "un-American". It's never JUST a symbol or JUST a flag. They are meant to represent something. That Rising Sun flag represents an oppressive gov't, a shitty time in history and so on. I understand we shouldn't give power to inanimate objects as they shouldn't but it's understandable why people get angered. Now I totally agree that people need to understand that the band DID NOT intend anything by showing the flag. It was an honest mistake and people who are getting mad at muse need to get that. They used the flag for artistic and visual purposes not at all to make any political statement. It's totally different if they knowingly knew what the flag represented but clearly they didnt so there is no need for all the hate that was being targeted at them on twitter and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitton Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We waited so long for a video to be up for 5 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 That would be a fitting intro to the video tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Why did they include the purple troll (forgot his name) but not the green alien trumpet player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 With the short amount of time the video was up people made so many gifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danaetop Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Another thing, why is there a parental advisory thing at the beginning of the video? What in this video could possibly be considered explicit content?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Another thing, why is there a parental advisory thing at the beginning of the video? What in this video could possibly be considered explicit content?? We fragile Americans are permanently scarred whenever we hear bad words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Another thing, why is there a parental advisory thing at the beginning of the video? What in this video could possibly be considered explicit content?? fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Another thing, why is there a parental advisory thing at the beginning of the video? What in this video could possibly be considered explicit content?? The word 'fuck' is in the song. Maybe that's why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Queen Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Best post about the subject. +1 That Rising Sun flag represents an oppressive gov't, a shitty time in history and so on. I understand we shouldn't give power to inanimate objects as they shouldn't but it's understandable why people get angered. What I want to know is why all the people crying outrage at Muse using a part of this flag in their video (I'm pretty sure they thought "Oh a symbolic rising sun? Japan=land of the rising sun=fits perfectly") aren't also crying outrage at Japan for still using this flag for their navy? (I know they're crying at Muse because they're supposed to be neutral, pop band, no politics of that sort, and so on, but it doesn't explain why they're not trying to make Japan alter it. If they have it's never been in our textbooks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We fragile Americans are permanently scarred whenever we hear bad words. lol I never understand that. Songs which contain lyrics regarding sex, violence or sexual violence are okay but oh no not those swear words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kueller Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 lol I never understand that. Songs which contain lyrics regarding sex, violence or sexual violence are okay but oh no not those swear words! Actually sex is incredibly censored compared to violence here. You can go on murderous rampages in a Rated T video game but a nipple would be enough to bump it to an M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danaetop Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 We fragile Americans are permanently scarred whenever we hear bad words. Oooh right, the "do what the fuck you want to" bit... At first I was like what, are the robot boobs offensive or something? I'd never seen such a notice on youtube before, must be a new thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 +1 What I want to know is why all the people crying outrage at Muse using a part of this flag in their video (I'm pretty sure they thought "Oh a symbolic rising sun? Japan=land of the rising sun=fits perfectly") aren't also crying outrage at Japan for still using this flag for their navy? (I know they're crying at Muse because they're supposed to be neutral, pop band, no politics of that sort, and so on, but it doesn't explain why they're not trying to make Japan alter it. If they have it's never been in our textbooks.) Japan's modern flag just has the sun on it...white flag and red sun in middle. In regards to not seeing it in your textbook...Japan's involvement in WWII is discussed differently in Japan, the US and China. It's barely discussed in American textbooks unless you are in University and specialize in Asian Hisyory or take classes focused on Asian history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paper tiger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Actually sex is incredibly censored compared to violence here. You can go on murderous rampages in a Rated T video game but a nipple would be enough to bump it to an M. Ooh yeah that is very true. I know in movies sexual violence is given R ratings where certain consensual scenes are given NC-17 ratings. I remember when in Blue Valentine he went down on her, they didnt show anything but it was obvious and it was enough for them to be like NC-17 but disturbing rape scenes get slapped w an R rating. Ratings here are just so random tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattestro Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Why did they include the purple troll (forgot his name) but not the green alien trumpet player? Too busy blowing Dom's trumpet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danaetop Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Actually sex is incredibly censored compared to violence here. You can go on murderous rampages in a Rated T video game but a nipple would be enough to bump it to an M. That is just sad... I don't believe violence in video games etc does have horrible effects on teens but the fact that "protection" against seeing a natural action is more strict than against disfiguring actions of violence is very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabriPav Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Too busy blowing Dom's trumpet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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