Clom Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 My original point was that saying "Oh he has such a talent for this" is a degrading thing to say since it usually implies that this person hasn't worked hard to be good at what he/she does. I've heard several times that things come so easily to Matt. How the fuck does anyone know that? Do we have any idea how much he has practiced and paid attention to the music around him to understand what he's doing? ADHD? Dyslexia? There you have two perfectly reasonable explanations to why some have a harder time. And you know, it IS possible to have a harder time concentrating than just having something that can be classified as a disability. It's been pretty well documented that Matt had instrumental skill from an early age, before training. Wasn't there a story of when his brother used to get him to play along to theme songs on a keyboard? All this before he was taught anything, he had an ear for music that wasn't trained or developed. What was this if not talent? And if there are things that mean people can have a harder time, then who says that there can't be things that make it possible to have an easier time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Exactly. But he can never let anything go (yes, I know that last statement will just make things worse. whatever). Sigh. ...I posted my opinion and you called it nonsense. Since then I have been defending my opinion and you have continued the argument without any signs of wanting to let it go. What makes you any better than me? It is indeed clear that Matt practiced his voice a lot though. If you listen to how terrible it sound on some of the earlier recordings (as in really fucking early), compared to now, it's remarkable that it's the same person. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 It's been pretty well documented that Matt had instrumental skill from an early age, before training. Wasn't there a story of when his brother used to get him to play along to theme songs on a keyboard? All this before he was taught anything, he had an ear for music that wasn't trained or developed. What was this if not talent? And if there are things that mean people can have a harder time, then who says that there can't be things that make it possible to have an easier time? While both of these are good points and I agree to an extent, you have to agree that to be able to play something you've heard on the piano, you HAVE to be able to know how the notes sound. It's not like he was born with the knowledge of how every key on a piano sounds. But yes, I agree that it can't be explained with any of the things I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 My original point was that saying "Oh he has such a talent for this" is a degrading thing to say since it usually implies that this person hasn't worked hard to be good at what he/she does. I've heard several times that things come so easily to Matt. How the fuck does anyone know that? Do we have any idea how much he has practiced and paid attention to the music around him to understand what he's doing? ADHD? Dyslexia? There you have two perfectly reasonable explanations to why some have a harder time. And you know, it IS possible to have a harder time concentrating than just having something that can be classified as a disability. The fact that his voice has changed so much over the years, and not just through natural lowering of tone with age, shows that he has been working at it, but he had the natural aptitude from the start AFAIC. He never wanted to be the singer yet it fell on him by default and he was good at it. If that burden had fallen on Chris or Dom, would Muse's music have sounded so good? I don't think so. It was Matt's innate talent for singing that really made them stand out. Yes, I know you'll say you've already made these points but I don't really see where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The fact that his voice has changed so much over the years, and not just through natural lowering of tone with age, shows that he has been working at it, but he had the natural aptitude from the start AFAIC. He never wanted to be the singer yet it fell on him by default and he was good at it. If that burden had fallen on Chris or Dom, would Muse's music have sounded so good? I don't think so. It was Matt's innate talent for singing that really made them stand out. Yes, I know you'll say you've already made these points but I don't really see where. "Singing good is about vocal placement and technique. Everyone has a placement in the voice from the first note they sing, or even talk. If you were to ask someone who has never sung a note to sing, they would have to just guess, right? They just try. Maybe you find that vocal placement that sounds good instantly, that doesn't mean you knew how to do it. It just means you managed to find it. And also, what makes a good singer? I can with confidence say that no one can produce quality high notes with great technique from the start. Everything like that is learned. A person with a good vocal placement and more importantly, a voice that sounds good* and can sing in tune, is by default a good singer. It doesn't really require much. *sounding good meaning the voices that we are born with. You know like some people are born baritones with deep voices, and some have really pitchy voices that are just annoying to listen to. This has nothing to do with talent any more than having long legs is a talent." And also, Chris is a great singer. The fact that he has an uninteresting voice is an opinion, and that Matt was born with a interesting voice is just as much talent as a runner being born with long legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 ...I posted my opinion and you called it nonsense. Since then I have been defending my opinion and you have continued the argument without any signs of wanting to let it go. What makes you any better than me? Indeed. In that case, I apologise for my tactlessness but you can't blame me for thinking you of all people can take it and give a good argument in return without resorting to "fuck off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 In that case, I apologise for my tactlessness but you can't blame me for thinking you of all people can take it and give a good argument in return without resorting to "fuck off" Not when we've already had this exact argument before and you didn't listen to me then either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If anyone thinks that there is such a thing as natural talent, sure. But if anyone thinks that any good musician in the business has had it easy, think again. And if you think that some people are born without the ability to learn to play an instrument or sing, think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clom Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If anyone thinks that there is such a thing as natural talent, sure. But if anyone thinks that any good musician in the business has had it easy, think again. And if you think that some people are born without the ability to play an instrument or sing, think again. /endthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Not when we've already had this exact argument before and you didn't listen to me then either When have we had this exact argument? Evidence, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 When have we had this exact argument? Evidence, please. Can't you remember us arguing about the existence of talent and creativity and shit? Haze was part of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 /endthread Edited a silly mistake in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Can't you remember us arguing about the existence of talent and creativity and shit? Haze was part of it Yes, but that was just Haze being a dick as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yes, but that was just Haze being a dick as usual. With that view, it won't matter what he does or what he says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontask Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Me > Bells. I think I'm officially a non-muser. Fucks sake, does this automatically make me a douche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 With that view, it won't matter what he does or what he says Yep. Me > Bells. I think I'm officially a non-muser. Fucks sake, does this automatically make me a douche? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontask Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yep. Yep. I think I'm a douche inspite of it personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Sippe and dontask, it pains me to say it but there's not enough Muse worshipping going on from either of you so either shape up or ship out, innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontask Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Sippe and dontask, it pains me to say it but there's not enough Muse worshipping going on from either of you so either shape up or ship out, innit I need a new album before it will happen. Sorry. I'm going to bed. Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFan9876 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Just my two cents: I completely agree with Sippe's final conclusion, as it's 100% factually correct. Natural talent does exist, but it's no more prominent than someone having a slightly larger part of their brain, or someone being born with more even vocal chords. However I don't believe such a thing exists for individual instruments. If someone can play one instrument, they have the ability to play many, but many just don't want that burden on their shoulders (if they consider it a burden). One thing I cannot stand for the life of me though is when people compliment you by saying "oh, he/she's soooo talented." Well why the fuck do you think I'm good at piano? I have a true passion for it and I practice all the time. Oh, also: Sippe and dontask, it pains me to say it but there's not enough Muse worshipping going on from either of you so either shape up or ship out, innit *worshiping MUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Just my two cents: I completely agree with Sippe's final conclusion, as it's 100% factually correct. Natural talent does exist, but it's no more prominent than someone having a slightly larger part of their brain, or someone being born with more even vocal chords. However I don't believe such a thing exists for individual instruments. If someone can play one instrument, they have the ability to play many, but many just don't want that burden on their shoulders (if they consider it a burden). One thing I cannot stand for the life of me though is when people compliment you by saying "oh, he/she's soooo talented." Well why the fuck do you think I'm good at piano? I have a true passion for it and I practice all the time. Oh, also: MUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraSilvertongue Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Shut uuup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Shut uuup. I didn't say anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan. Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Just my two cents: I completely agree with Sippe's final conclusion, as it's 100% factually correct. Natural talent does exist, but it's no more prominent than someone having a slightly larger part of their brain, or someone being born with more even vocal chords. However I don't believe such a thing exists for individual instruments. If someone can play one instrument, they have the ability to play many, but many just don't want that burden on their shoulders (if they consider it a burden). One thing I cannot stand for the life of me though is when people compliment you by saying "oh, he/she's soooo talented." Well why the fuck do you think I'm good at piano? I have a true passion for it and I practice all the time. Oh, also: *worshiping MUSE What's with the bottom part of the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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