Cheese Question

[haze015]

actually, the verse has it in it.

 

and by your arguement of people using a certain pedal makes them not cliche, every band thats ever used a pedal sound is completely original

 

That's quite an assumption you've made there.

 

Actually, being the first ones to use it is original, it later being heavily copied is what makes it a cliche. Take a band like Kraftwerk, who basically made pop music, but had the idea to only use synthesizers, no one was doing that in the 1970's, yet it's all you hear on the radio today.

 

 

And no the verse does not have it, as there's no guitar in the verse except for the fading out of the fuzz guitar. Might want to try learning a thing or two about music production before you try claiming what is cheesy or a cliche.

[Priad-Luabe]

That's quite an assumption you've made there.

 

Actually, being the first ones to use it is original, it later being heavily copied is what makes it a cliche. Take a band like Kraftwerk, who basically made pop music, but had the idea to only use synthesizers, no one was doing that in the 1970's, yet it's all you hear on the radio today.

 

 

And no the verse does not have it, as there's no guitar in the verse except for the fading out of the fuzz guitar. Might want to try learning a thing or two about music production before you try claiming what is cheesy or a cliche.

 

the fade out/in can be caused by phaser.

 

also, due to my complete lack of production knowledge (which i have no interest in anyway) i'll concede that to you, but i stand by my point that using a pedal doesn't make you not cliche' when it comes to structure and lyrics

[haze015]

the fade out/in can be caused by phaser.

 

also, due to my complete lack of production knowledge (which i have no interest in anyway) i'll concede that to you, but i stand by my point that using a pedal doesn't make you not cliche' when it comes to structure and lyrics

 

Well done on stating the obvious.

 

But music isn't about a specific thing, it's the whole package, so just stop.

 

 

And no, a phaser doesn't cause anything to fade in/out. Please just stop.

[ChrisAbbott22]

What popularity?

 

 

Same year:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=935CFnTt-iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiluLxqUzfU

 

please tell me youre joking

[Priad-Luabe]

But music isn't about a specific thing, it's the whole package

 

in that case, nothing about any of the songs mentioned (nsc etc) is cliche at all as they are not identical to something else

[haze015]

please tell me youre joking

 

Not really.

 

It's obviously well known among Muse fans, but I don't feel it had much impact further than that, it wasn't a song you heard everywhere like a great number of those songs were and didn't have the same sort of hype surrounding it, never seen it fill a dancefloor, in fact, never heard it played anywhere.

 

That's hardly a "popular" song.

 

in that case, nothing about any of the songs mentioned (nsc etc) is cliche at all as they are not identical to something else

 

Why are you being so pointlessly pedantic?

 

By that logic, all music is genius and everything original shouldn't be criticised.

[ChrisAbbott22]

Not really.

 

It's obviously well known among Muse fans, but I don't feel it had much impact further than that, it wasn't a song you heard everywhere like a great number of those songs were, never seen it fill a dancefloor, in fact, never heard it played anywhere.

 

That's hardly a "popular" song.

 

I've heard it pretty much everywhere. About 80% of people who have heard of muse that I know, heard of them due to Starlight. It's chart position closely competes with all the songs you listed there if not beating some. But if you're not really joking then I guess there was some lightheartedness behind it.

[Priad-Luabe]

 

By that logic, all music is genius and everything original shouldn't be criticised.

 

finally we're on the same page

[haze015]

I've heard it pretty much everywhere. About 80% of people who have heard of muse that I know, heard of them due to Starlight. It's chart position closely competes with all the songs you listed there if not beating some. But if you're not really joking then I guess there was some lightheartedness behind it.

 

Might have been different in New Zealand to the UK. Although the chart position would suggest otherwise, Muse do have a massive fanbase here to start with.

 

 

finally we're on the same page

 

Not really, theory is mostly irrelevant to be honest, just makes discussion between musicians easier. Using the same chord structure as someone else isn't a cliche. However, using the same sounds and production ideas as someone else is a cliche.

[ChrisAbbott22]

Might have been different in New Zealand to the UK. Although the chart position would suggest otherwise, Muse do have a massive fanbase here to start with.

 

I've been all over the world boy... don't let current my location fool you.

[Priad-Luabe]

Not really, theory is mostly irrelevant to be honest, just makes discussion between musicians easier. Using the same chord structure as someone else isn't a cliche. However, using the same sounds and production ideas as someone else is a cliche.

 

so, the song itself isn't make it cliche, just how its recorded and produced then?

[haze015]

I've been all over the world boy... don't let current my location fool you.

 

Ok?

 

so, the song itself isn't make it cliche, just how its recorded and produced then?

 

It's not purely down to that of course, but it has far more significance. Go and listen to covers of songs done in different genres, it can totally change the exact same lyrics, melodies, chords, structure.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I31KG9edC-M

[Priad-Luabe]

but this thread is about the songs that were recorded, not covers in a different genre

also, changing genre just changes from rock cliche to a cliche in that genre

[MattXXI]

For what it's worth, Starlight is one of Muse's most popular songs in America (or was prior to The Resistance being released).

 

"Starlight" has also peaked at number two on Billboard's Modern Rock Tracks chart, Muse's third highest charting single to date on any major chart in the US.

 

It's one of Muse's most recognizable songs after Uprising and Supermassive Black Hole. (In America at least) although I'm sure it's just as popular worldwide.

 

 

/2cents

[haze015]

but this thread is about the songs that were recorded, not covers in a different genre

also, changing genre just changes from rock cliche to a cliche in that genre

 

But the point still stands that the same notes, melodies, chord structures can sound totally different.

 

Production cliches are often what people consider as cheese. Genre doesn't imply a cliche as such though, it's only when elements get repeated over & over that it becomes one, but then someone comes along with a fresh idea...

[Priad-Luabe]

But the point still stands that the same notes, melodies, chord structures can sound totally different.

 

Production cliches are often what people consider as cheese. Genre doesn't imply a cliche as such though, it's only when elements get repeated over & over that it becomes one, but then someone comes along with a fresh idea...

 

but the songs are still cliche

[haze015]

but the songs are still cliche

 

But then we return to all popular music being a cliche and just going to go around in circles.

[Priad-Luabe]

thus we return to what i said earlier, disliking nsc etc because they are cliche is not really an arguement, if you say you dislike the overused studio engineering then fair enough, but the actual songs are as cliche'd as any other mainstream rock song

[haze015]

thus we return to what i said earlier, disliking nsc etc because they are cliche is not really an arguement, if you say you dislike the overused studio engineering then fair enough, but the actual songs are as cliche'd as any other mainstream rock song

 

 

I give up with this. Apart from stating the fucking obvious, you haven't got anything intelligent to say.

[dontask]

thus we return to what i said earlier, disliking nsc etc because they are cliche is not really an arguement, if you say you dislike the overused studio engineering then fair enough, but the actual songs are as cliche'd as any other mainstream rock song

 

the problem with the songs is how blatant they are. Aside from being lyrically pure pure cheese, not necessarily cliche, Guiding Light is Ultravox with a solo that has no place in any Muse tune. A solo basically that I could come up with. NSC is like theyve put a load of Muse traits in a bowl, mixed them together, added some cringy lyrics and been done with it. I can forgive NSC cus I never had to hear it live, and because it was for Twilight (dont mention Hearing Damage). So yeah its hard to say where you draw the line on what is cliche, but if the drumbeat is as identical as that, AND the song is a huge cheese fest, its going to come under criticism.

 

/rant. my saturday is boring.

[paemchen]

For me this is about the music, rather than the lyrics. Because if the tune is excellent, it can carry cheesy/cliche lyrics. I found the music for Guiding Light and Neutron Star Collision to be, well, disappointing. The piano solo at the end of NSC has some redeeming qualities, but just not enough!

 

I hope that makes some kind of sense.

[QubiQ]

The piano solo at the end of NSC has some redeeming qualities, but just not enough!

 

It always annoys me everytime when fans bring up the piano solo to justify the song. It's just so predictable of Muse. As if to say adding some classic piano cords would satisfy muse fans even though how sell out the song is.

[Priad-Luabe]

the problem with the songs is how blatant they are. Aside from being lyrically pure pure cheese, not necessarily cliche, Guiding Light is Ultravox with a solo that has no place in any Muse tune. A solo basically that I could come up with. NSC is like theyve put a load of Muse traits in a bowl, mixed them together, added some cringy lyrics and been done with it. I can forgive NSC cus I never had to hear it live, and because it was for Twilight (dont mention Hearing Damage). So yeah its hard to say where you draw the line on what is cliche, but if the drumbeat is as identical as that, AND the song is a huge cheese fest, its going to come under criticism.

 

/rant. my saturday is boring.

 

i totally agree with this (even though i like the songs). you understand what i'm saying about using the term cliche' etc and havent just had a bf because i said something bad about oos

[dontask]

i totally agree with this (even though i like the songs). you understand what i'm saying about using the term cliche' etc and havent just had a bf because i said something bad about oos

 

the problem is, you were making a point that had no point to it. Yeah you could argue that OOS is clichéd in places, but much less so than GL and NSC and not to the point where it becomes an issue.

[Priad-Luabe]

the problem is, you were making a point that had no point to it. Yeah you could argue that OOS is clichéd in places, but much less so than GL and NSC and not to the point where it becomes an issue.

 

i wouldnt say that nsc is as much as gl though, then again gl is just vienna

 

the point that i was trying to make is that just using the word cliche' on its own is not really enough as its very ambiguous as to what you mean, the songs in question are predictable more than anything