Furygirl Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Perhaps why you missed his sarcasm. I think you're right. I'm usually really good at that. My point is more that if you don't play some older songs every now and then, of course people aren't going to know them. Not everyone takes the time to catch up on a band's back catalogue. Also, it couldn't possibly harm them in any way to play something like Dead Star or even Muscle Museum, people would no doubt get into it really fast. I agree with that. I could maybe say more, but I'd probably make an ass of myself. I really don't know what the band's strategy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee3Dee Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I agree with that. I could maybe say more, but I'd probably make an ass of myself. I really don't know what the band's strategy is. I don't think they have one, other than doing their best to troll this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Not to mention, when they were in the States in 2005 they played new songs like Exo-politics and Assassin: both premiered in Florida!!! And now, they don't even play shows in Fla. *sorry Florida peeps. ha! But yes, this is truness I think Muse have collective amnesia.... Maybe Muse simply don't care about the old songs as much as diehard fans do? They wrote them 10-7 years ago and played them lots at the time, their whole sound has changed a lot since then. And honestly, just about every artist/band I've seen favours newer material over older one, especially when they've been around for a while, and most of them only play the most popular old tracks. If that's the case, then they need to man-up and admit to it. Tell us "We're not playing those songs because those aren't the songs we want to play" instead of either making excuses ("can't find my pedal") or blaming it on the fans ("No one will know MM if we play it anyway!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occer Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 .. the problem is, they say that about the USA fans, but do the same in Europe. But no, not in Australia and Asia apparently. Thank fuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugenkiss Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Do you really think they'd get more participation from the crowds at arena shows if they played Dead Star? Sure, the diehards would be ecstatic, but I bet at least half the crowd would be scratching their head. That doesn't mean I don't think they should play it. I agree that they should play older stuff even if some people don't know the songs. I'm guessing that maybe your question is what Muse is asking themselves when they plan the setlists. What will people be most likely to respond to and participate in? Oh yeah, Feeling Good! Starlight! SMBH! I'm not trying to argue again. I've made my point already, but I'm a bit drunk now. Posted at 6:04 pm. AWESOME!!! Maybe Muse simply don't care about the old songs as much as diehard fans do? They wrote them 10-7 years ago and played them lots at the time, their whole sound has changed a lot since then. And honestly, just about every artist/band I've seen favours newer material over older one, especially when they've been around for a while, and most of them only play the most popular old tracks. I honestly think this is the case. They have changed so much since writing Showbiz and OoS. But I look at it like this: As much as I want to hear these songs, if they don't want to play them then it's gonna suck. I know I wouldn't want to do something I don't want to just because some one else wants to me to. I'd rather see a KICK ASS show of music Muse wants to play versus a mediocre performance of only songs I want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessicat Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Anyway more importantly, Yay for Perth getting (well maybe getting) the UFO. Haha Eastern staters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren. Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Lucky Perth! Cheaper tickets and a possible UFO appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occer Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 They don't get the towers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lih Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I think they might, like they did at Foro Sol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksSmirkingR3venge Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 They have changed so much since writing Showbiz and OoS. But I look at it like this: As much as I want to hear these songs, if they don't want to play them then it's gonna suck. I know I wouldn't want to do something I don't want to just because some one else wants to me to. I'd rather see a KICK ASS show of music Muse wants to play versus a mediocre performance of only songs I want to hear. I agree with you there. I'm actually surprised people got offended at Dom's statement. I read it and didn't think anything of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I agree with you there. I'm actually surprised people got offended at Dom's statement. I read it and didn't think anything of it I didn't think anything of it, either. Seemed reasonable. In DC, almost no one seems to know who Muse is, or anything beyond Uprising. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tofu Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 I didn't think anything of it, either. Seemed reasonable. In DC, almost no one seems to know who Muse is, or anything beyond Uprising. Sad but true. I think I reacted strongly because almost everyone I know IS a Muse fan, most of which who've known them longer than I have. I've been a fan since Absolution. I mean, they aren't as popular as other bands for the most part, but most people at least know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 For those who say "I don't care what they play", I'd ask this... Imagine you're at a gig and they play a song you've never heard, would you be upset or bored? Of course not - but apparently the band thinks you would be, so they're afraid to try it. That's the attitude that is bothering people.... I didn't think anything of it, either. Seemed reasonable. In DC, almost no one seems to know who Muse is, or anything beyond Uprising. Sad but true. It doesn't matter if the general population knows who they are, the general population isn't going to go to the gigs... Just because my mother couldn't name a muse b-side to save her life doesn't mean that they shouldn't play a song off Showbiz at their next gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksSmirkingR3venge Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 For those who say "I don't care what they play", I'd ask this... Imagine you're at a gig and they play a song you've never heard, would you be upset or bored? Of course not - but apparently the band thinks you would be, so they're afraid to try it. That's the attitude that is bothering people.... It doesn't matter if the general population knows who they are, the general population isn't going to go to the gigs... Just because my mother couldn't name a muse b-side to save her life doesn't mean that they shouldn't play a song off Showbiz at their next gig. Exactly. I honestly don't care what they play. I don't mind if they trow in a rarity or if they play their big hit singles. I've gotten a different impression from other people, though. Don't the Gorilaz get complaints because they don't play their biggest hits a lot? (I'm not sure if it was the Gorilaz or not. I forget ) Most people I know that go to concerts are casual fans so they expect those "certain" songs. It's hard to please everybody but I personally think they're doing a good job. They're not playing all the songs you would like to hear but they're doing some Again, this is just my opinion so please don't eat me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Exactly. I honestly don't care what they play. I don't mind if they trow in a rarity or if they play their big hit singles. I've gotten a different impression from other people, though. Don't the Gorilaz get complaints because they don't play their biggest hits a lot? (I'm not sure if it was the Gorilaz or not. I forget ) Most people I know that go to concerts are casual fans so they expect those "certain" songs. It's hard to please everybody but I personally think they're doing a good job. They're not playing all the songs you would like to hear but they're doing some Again, this is just my opinion so please don't eat me This isn't about anyone asking them to not play their hits or asking them to play only rarities. It's about them thinking that they shouldn't or can't play their older songs (including singles) because US fans won't know them and, as such, won't enjoy them if they're played. That simply isn't true. If they played the Charlottesville setlist with Sunburn added, as an example, they'd be playing all the hits and a song off of Showbiz.... and I don't think those who didn't know it would have complained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saracene Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 For those who say "I don't care what they play", I'd ask this... Imagine you're at a gig and they play a song you've never heard, would you be upset or bored? When I'm at a concert, for Muse or anyone else, I do tend to enjoy listening to the songs I know much more so than the ones I've never heard. I'm not upset or bored exactly, but I do find myself thinking, ok I hope the next one is a song I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksSmirkingR3venge Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 This isn't about anyone asking them to not play their hits or asking them to play only rarities. It's about them thinking that they shouldn't or can't play their older songs (including singles) because US fans won't know them and, as such, won't enjoy them if they're played. That simply isn't true. If they played the Charlottesville setlist with Sunburn added, as an example, they'd be playing all the hits and a song off of Showbiz.... and I don't think those who didn't know it would have complained. Yeah I know that. But it would be a very "wtf" moment for a lot of people. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed myself as much if a band played a song I haven't heard. But honestly, their older songs are so different compared to their newer stuff. I imagine a large group of people wouldn't have liked Sunburn (or any other older song) because it's not "the Muse" they came to see. Just a thought. And yes, I know it would only be one song out of the rest of the setlist. No need to point it out. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree because this will only go in circles and I don't feel like going on and on about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Another way to look at it - if the issue is that the people who complain should stop complaining because "you can't expect them to play whatever you want" then that would apply to the people who heard the songs they didn't know - "you can't expect to know every song at a concert for a band you are only casually familiar with" When I'm at a concert, for Muse or anyone else, I do tend to enjoy listening to the songs I know much more so than the ones I've never heard. I'm not upset or bored exactly, but I do find myself thinking, ok I hope the next one is a song I know. I don't think Muse could play a song I don't know (unless it was new), but if I was seeing a band I wasn't a huge fan of, I would expect that I'd be hearing a lot of unfamiliar songs.... I may not jump around as much as with the songs I know, but I don't think I'd be bothered by it. What would I expect? I can't expect that they're only going to play the couple of songs I know and then call it a night. Why would I expect the band to cater the setlist to me, I'm not even a fan. It's one thing to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we should probably play that big single because they'll be expecting it", it's another to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we probably shouldn't play that fan favorite because they won't know it" The second statement is what Muse has indicated is their thinking when making the setlists. Yeah I know that. But it would be a very "wtf" moment for a lot of people. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed myself as much if a band played a song I haven't heard. But honestly, their older songs are so different compared to their newer stuff. I imagine a large group of people wouldn't have liked Sunburn (or any other older song) because it's not "the Muse" they came to see. Just a thought. And yes, I know it would only be one song out of the rest of the setlist. No need to point it out. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree because this will only go in circles and I don't feel like going on and on about this. I think you're missing my point. When I mentioned Sunburn I was responding to your post where you stated that they can't leave out the big hits - I was simply giving an example of a setlist that contains all the big hits the casuals will know and love and one song that caters to the die hards to point out that it's not like it would have stopped the gig dead in its tracks or anything. It is possible to cater to both the casual and the die hard fans in the same setlist, you don't have to go to either extreme, that's all I'm saying. No matter what setlist they play there will always be at least one person who dislikes a song or someone who doesn't know the song. So what? It's not the end of the world. They should no more consider not playing Muscle Museum because Joe Shmoe doesn't know it than they should consider never playing NSC because I hate it. A lot of other people know Muscle Museum, a lot of other people like NSC. As a general point (not aimed at anyone in particular): I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again - in my opinion, what they're lacking is balance. They don't seem to have quite figured out how to bring together the casuals and diehards, the big singles and the rarities, the performance and the lights/stage, in a consistently balanced way. When people complain, they explain why it is that way but then almost as quickly as they give the reason, they contradict it. They say "we can't mix things up because of the towers" - then they randomly whip out a couple of songs they haven't played on the entire tour at a show, with the towers, in Turin, and again in Canada. They say "We can't play the older songs in the US because people won't know them", then they whip out one of the biggest fan favorites, one which was only played 1 time in a 50+ gig arena tour (including the UK and EU), at an American festival. Their actions don't make a whole lot of sense, and neither do their reasons. Like I said in my first post in here, if their real reason is "I don't feel like it", then they need to say it, instead of coming up with excuses or claiming that their doing it for the sake/benefit of the fans. One final thought on this stupidly long post... I honestly have no problem with people who don't care what they play, to each his own, but I do have a problem with people who seem to think that because something isn't important to them it shouldn't be important to anyone else, or that people who are bothered by it are overreacting or that there is no valid point to be made. Yes, you can't always please everyone, but that doesn't mean that anytime anyone ever lodges a complaint it should be ignored, minimized or dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksSmirkingR3venge Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 Woah ducky that was a long post Excuse me for being unclear but I'm not feeling too well tonight. I guess what I'm trying to say is, they have played a few rarities (CE, Bliss, RBS). They may not play all the songs that everybody wants to hear but they're doing something. And as far as the towers go, I imagine it's incredibly hard to just randomly throw in a song with all the lights and visuals. They have thrown in a few songs randomly but you notice it's only been a few. Honestly, I don't know what the deal is. It may be they're just being lazy, or it could be a bigger issue that you can't see unless you're the band or actually working on the tour. Hm... I'm not sure if I'm making sense anymore but hopefully you get the point And for the record, Ducky, I have always thought you give good arguments. You're one of the people who actually seem to make sense on here. I'm not trying to fight or anything. Just saying what I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbmuse09 Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 One final thought on this stupidly long post... I honestly have no problem with people who don't care what they play, to each his own, but I do have a problem with people who seem to think that because something isn't important to them it shouldn't be important to anyone else, or that people who are bothered by it are overreacting or that there is no valid point to be made. Yes, you can't always please everyone, but that doesn't mean that anytime anyone ever lodges a complaint it should be ignored, minimized or dismissed. Best post on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Woah ducky that was a long post Excuse me for being unclear but I'm not feeling too well tonight. I guess what I'm trying to say is, they have played a few rarities (CE, Bliss, RBS). They may not play all the songs that everybody wants to hear but they're doing something. And as far as the towers go, I imagine it's incredibly hard to just randomly throw in a song with all the lights and visuals. They have thrown in a few songs randomly but you notice it's only been a few. Honestly, I don't know what the deal is. It may be they're just being lazy, or it could be a bigger issue that you can't see unless you're the band or actually working on the tour. Hm... I'm not sure if I'm making sense anymore but hopefully you get the point And for the record, Ducky, I have always thought you give good arguments. You're one of the people who actually seem to make sense on here. I'm not trying to fight or anything. Just saying what I think... It's all good, I'm not really trying to argue with you either, and I think I get what you're saying, and we're not that far off from each other About the rarities - that's sort of tied into my point about balance. They've shown their capable of playing a couple more songs, which is good, but they needed to be consistently playing them at each gig instead of randomly dropping them in at every 5th gig... that's where the balance comes in. About preparedness - they played several songs on the summer tour that weren't played prior to summer. Any one of those songs could theoretically have been done on the arena tour this fall because they were rehearsed (and performed) and had visuals already prepared. And they did do several of those songs (TaB, Bliss, CE, NSC and RBS), they just didn't play them consistently. They could have had a single "rarity" slot in addition to the standard setlist where one of the songs gets played each night.... but they don't seem to think they need to do that. I think they're capable of doing a lot more than they do, they just don't do it. Some people think it's laziness, and it could be, but I think it's more to do with them not realizing their potential. I think they don't have confidence in their ability to pull things off and I think they don't have confidence that the fans will follow along with what their doing. I think they also have some wrong-headed ideas about things, like that they need UFOs because they're not interesting enough or that the crowd won't appreciate older songs. It may be that they're really feeling the pressure this time more than before because of how big the album was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiner1 Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Another way to look at it - if the issue is that the people who complain should stop complaining because "you can't expect them to play whatever you want" then that would apply to the people who heard the songs they didn't know - "you can't expect to know every song at a concert for a band you are only casually familiar with" I don't think Muse could play a song I don't know (unless it was new), but if I was seeing a band I wasn't a huge fan of, I would expect that I'd be hearing a lot of unfamiliar songs.... I may not jump around as much as with the songs I know, but I don't think I'd be bothered by it. What would I expect? I can't expect that they're only going to play the couple of songs I know and then call it a night. Why would I expect the band to cater the setlist to me, I'm not even a fan. It's one thing to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we should probably play that big single because they'll be expecting it", it's another to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we probably shouldn't play that fan favorite because they won't know it" The second statement is what Muse has indicated is their thinking when making the setlists. I think you're missing my point. When I mentioned Sunburn I was responding to your post where you stated that they can't leave out the big hits - I was simply giving an example of a setlist that contains all the big hits the casuals will know and love and one song that caters to the die hards to point out that it's not like it would have stopped the gig dead in its tracks or anything. It is possible to cater to both the casual and the die hard fans in the same setlist, you don't have to go to either extreme, that's all I'm saying. No matter what setlist they play there will always be at least one person who dislikes a song or someone who doesn't know the song. So what? It's not the end of the world. They should no more consider not playing Muscle Museum because Joe Shmoe doesn't know it than they should consider never playing NSC because I hate it. A lot of other people know Muscle Museum, a lot of other people like NSC. As a general point (not aimed at anyone in particular): I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again - in my opinion, what they're lacking is balance. They don't seem to have quite figured out how to bring together the casuals and diehards, the big singles and the rarities, the performance and the lights/stage, in a consistently balanced way. When people complain, they explain why it is that way but then almost as quickly as they give the reason, they contradict it. They say "we can't mix things up because of the towers" - then they randomly whip out a couple of songs they haven't played on the entire tour at a show, with the towers, in Turin, and again in Canada. They say "We can't play the older songs in the US because people won't know them", then they whip out one of the biggest fan favorites, one which was only played 1 time in a 50+ gig arena tour (including the UK and EU), at an American festival. Their actions don't make a whole lot of sense, and neither do their reasons. Like I said in my first post in here, if their real reason is "I don't feel like it", then they need to say it, instead of coming up with excuses or claiming that their doing it for the sake/benefit of the fans. One final thought on this stupidly long post... I honestly have no problem with people who don't care what they play, to each his own, but I do have a problem with people who seem to think that because something isn't important to them it shouldn't be important to anyone else, or that people who are bothered by it are overreacting or that there is no valid point to be made. Yes, you can't always please everyone, but that doesn't mean that anytime anyone ever lodges a complaint it should be ignored, minimized or dismissed. + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksSmirkingR3venge Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 It's all good, I'm not really trying to argue with you either, and I think I get what you're saying, and we're not that far off from each other About the rarities - that's sort of tied into my point about balance. They've shown their capable of playing a couple more songs, which is good, but they needed to be consistently playing them at each gig instead of randomly dropping them in at every 5th gig... that's where the balance comes in. About preparedness - they played several songs on the summer tour that weren't played prior to summer. Any one of those songs could theoretically have been done on the arena tour this fall because they were rehearsed (and performed) and had visuals already prepared. And they did do several of those songs (TaB, Bliss, CE, NSC and RBS), they just didn't play them consistently. They could have had a single "rarity" slot in addition to the standard setlist where one of the songs gets played each night.... but they don't seem to think they need to do that. I think they're capable of doing a lot more than they do, they just don't do it. Some people think it's laziness, and it could be, but I think it's more to do with them not realizing their potential. I think they don't have confidence in their ability to pull things off and I think they don't have confidence that the fans will follow along with what their doing. I think they also have some wrong-headed ideas about things, like that they need UFOs because they're not interesting enough or that the crowd won't appreciate older songs. It may be that they're really feeling the pressure this time more than before because of how big the album was... All I have to say is that I agree with everything you said (especially the bold bit) . I honestly think they only difference is, you care more about the setlist than I do, and you can actually write what you're thinking so people can understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 Another way to look at it - if the issue is that the people who complain should stop complaining because "you can't expect them to play whatever you want" then that would apply to the people who heard the songs they didn't know - "you can't expect to know every song at a concert for a band you are only casually familiar with" I don't think Muse could play a song I don't know (unless it was new), but if I was seeing a band I wasn't a huge fan of, I would expect that I'd be hearing a lot of unfamiliar songs.... I may not jump around as much as with the songs I know, but I don't think I'd be bothered by it. What would I expect? I can't expect that they're only going to play the couple of songs I know and then call it a night. Why would I expect the band to cater the setlist to me, I'm not even a fan. It's one thing to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we should probably play that big single because they'll be expecting it", it's another to say "Oh, there will be casuals so we probably shouldn't play that fan favorite because they won't know it" The second statement is what Muse has indicated is their thinking when making the setlists. I think you're missing my point. When I mentioned Sunburn I was responding to your post where you stated that they can't leave out the big hits - I was simply giving an example of a setlist that contains all the big hits the casuals will know and love and one song that caters to the die hards to point out that it's not like it would have stopped the gig dead in its tracks or anything. It is possible to cater to both the casual and the die hard fans in the same setlist, you don't have to go to either extreme, that's all I'm saying. No matter what setlist they play there will always be at least one person who dislikes a song or someone who doesn't know the song. So what? It's not the end of the world. They should no more consider not playing Muscle Museum because Joe Shmoe doesn't know it than they should consider never playing NSC because I hate it. A lot of other people know Muscle Museum, a lot of other people like NSC. As a general point (not aimed at anyone in particular): I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again - in my opinion, what they're lacking is balance. They don't seem to have quite figured out how to bring together the casuals and diehards, the big singles and the rarities, the performance and the lights/stage, in a consistently balanced way. When people complain, they explain why it is that way but then almost as quickly as they give the reason, they contradict it. They say "we can't mix things up because of the towers" - then they randomly whip out a couple of songs they haven't played on the entire tour at a show, with the towers, in Turin, and again in Canada. They say "We can't play the older songs in the US because people won't know them", then they whip out one of the biggest fan favorites, one which was only played 1 time in a 50+ gig arena tour (including the UK and EU), at an American festival. Their actions don't make a whole lot of sense, and neither do their reasons. Like I said in my first post in here, if their real reason is "I don't feel like it", then they need to say it, instead of coming up with excuses or claiming that their doing it for the sake/benefit of the fans. One final thought on this stupidly long post... I honestly have no problem with people who don't care what they play, to each his own, but I do have a problem with people who seem to think that because something isn't important to them it shouldn't be important to anyone else, or that people who are bothered by it are overreacting or that there is no valid point to be made. Yes, you can't always please everyone, but that doesn't mean that anytime anyone ever lodges a complaint it should be ignored, minimized or dismissed. I wish I could give you a cookie for this post. +1394812094810394810918309132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-duck Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 All I have to say is that I agree with everything you said (especially the bold bit) . I honestly think they only difference is, you care more about the setlist than I do, and you can actually write what you're thinking so people can understand it i knew what you meant! i write too much, that's my problem... i tend to be wordy... Well, no... I write too much here... I haven't been writing too much on that thesis that I am supposed to be finishing I wish I could give you a cookie for this post. +1394812094810394810918309132 oooooooooooooooooo coooookies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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