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Neither of our countries has anything resembling a direct democracy, so aren't you really just giving the political power back to Parliament, not the people?

We scream on about "freedom" in the US, but we elect a handful of jackasses that just do what they please afterwards.

And I guess my point is, no matter what the political beliefs, once the party starts pulling out the "get the brown people out because they might be terrorists!" schtick (and more in the case of the US, taking away women's rights to their own selves, legalizing the ability to discriminate against LGBT persons, or building a wall) I think it's time to step back and think... hey, this is going seriously wrong...

None of those issues should be remotely attached to politics.

And yes, again, this is more a US problem, but it's undeniable that Brexit pushers played on fears of terrorism and foreigners.

To me, it puts a person who voted for those parties in a position where they have to advocate for voting for some "what ifs" and "maybes" that were more important than tangible negative impacts on whole groups of people.

And it leads to a culture like we have in the US, where it's okay to openly deride anyone who's not like you, deny basic human rights to people, and the law supports refusing to sell a cake at a cake shop to a gay couple.

It's a steep, slippery slope.

 

Ugh, Brexit was/is not about parties. I don't think your analogy with the Republican party and US politics stands.

What tangible effects on human rights did Brexit have? The economic catastrophe is yet to happen; those who voted in favour of Brexit weren't the most priviledged ones and if they are willing to take risks to their own detriment as a trade-off, then fair enough.

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I know it's old news but there was never any official confirmation.

 

 

 

Lol, as if it was a shocker anyway. Why does it even matter?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Irrelevant news - Matt tweeted that he voted for soft Brexit with freedom of movement, single market and ability to freely trade outside of EU. Personally this never seemed like a possibility to me.

 

On topic - Matt also tweeted about getting his acoustic guitar out for the next album.

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Yeah, it's not like "soft Brexit" was on the ballot. He was just trying to save some face with his fans, and its' why he put the freedom of movement in there as well.

 

As to the acoustic comment, that one also said 'ha! Drones WAS our "old Muse" album.'

That should have killed the hopes of more fans than the Brexit thing.

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I'm still confused as to why people struggle to understand that Drones was a back to basics album.

 

1. They went back to writing songs by jamming as opposed to the knob turning and software programming of the past 2 albums.

2. The majority of the songs were written for a 3-piece band. Saying "yeah but The Globalist!" doesn't change that.

3. Back to basics does't mean the music will sound like it did back then. It simply meant they'd go back to writing music in a similar way, which they did.

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The problem was more that they weren't expecting just the logistics of "old Muse" but some of the "spark" or whatever that made it what it was. And the band just isn't that band anymore.

 

I can agree with some of the arguments that they didn't do a very good job of it with the reliance on songs like DI/Mercy/Revolt/Aftermath. And the band picking those as the singles confirming "old Muse" wasn't ever a direction they wanted to market themselves on.

 

For me, it's more seeing that they tried to accomplish it by stuffing old classic rock style riffs often inorganically into songs, or making an overlong song out of nothing but an actual "old Muse" riff.

 

Like I've said, I've come to see Matt's "tried to get back into the mindset of OoS" as just trying to win back those fans, and while I liked the album, it's bothered me more and more. And trying to appease the "old Muse" fans was always destined to end in failure.

 

It explains the huge divide between their approach to the album and the tour, too, if the album was something they sort of forced as fanservice, but the tour really showcased the direction they've wanted to go in.

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On topic - Matt also tweeted about getting his acoustic guitar out for the next album.

 

Honestly doesn't excite me at all. Even if he does follow through with it, it's miiiiles more likely to end up being another soppy ballad than a Nature_1, COD or Recess.

 

Like I've said, I've come to see Matt's "tried to get back into the mindset of OoS" as just trying to win back those fans, and while I liked the album, it's bothered me more and more. And trying to appease the "old Muse" fans was always destined to end in failure.

 

I've had this feeling since Supremacy tbh.

 

I mean, Drones is a solid album imo but all the "I'm using the 7-string!/old Muse is back!/CE and Showbiz sequels!/look at this old riff!" stuff definitely always felt hollow to me. Also that it might just be a way of trying to make replacements for those older songs that he gets bored with requests for.

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Drones was a good album for me, despite some really glaring flaws.

 

But stuff like you said, "there's a CE/Showbiz sequel!" and the "Psycho riff" teaser was ultimately just disingenuous, and it's hard to feel good about it in the long run.

I haven't managed to listen to the album in quite a while, and I've lost the ability to look at it as an honest piece of art.

 

I think there's going to be a massive backlash no matter what the next album ends up being like, and it's going to cement the band as kind of a musical joke if they do something gimmicky like hip hop, rap, etc, but a gig worth seeing just for the visuals and the radio hits.

Which sadly seems to be the way the band wants it.

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And I certainly understand that point of view, if I don't agree with it, it's just sad that the Brexit leaders felt that they had to resort to fear, racism and things like outright lies about funding the NHS to get their win.

Igniting the population with those sorts of issues will lead to the eventual destruction of both our countries. And it frustrates me that politicians think the risk is worth a win.

If I felt there was a more coherent argument among these lines, I might've been more willing to listen. But it didn't surface, or at least, it didn't surface in a way that could take precedence in the debate.

 

For instance, I'm aware of the left-wing Brexit movement, who wanted stuff along a soft Brexit line of decentralised power, and its a concept I get more than the authoritarian far-right horseshit we're getting. But that's not what we saw advertised, and it never would be given it was lead by a debate between the right and the far-right. We just got lots of lies and bullshit, and it won. For all its issues, I felt the Brexit brigade did not have a serious alternative. They still don't, hence why you get surveys that enough people to annul the slim victory are having doubts. But apparently that's democracy.

 

I'm intrigued that the UK's Crown Prosecution Service is going to have a hearing that the two official Leave campaigns are going to be investigated for puposefully lying to the public. I don't know if it'll go far, but if it goes to trial, could be an interesting precedent.

 

At this point, I kinda don't care if Matt voted Brexit or not. We've covered this topic before, and there's bigger fish to fry politically now. But also, I think its pointless slagging off individual voters on this topic. On the whole thing, I feel the actual campaigners are more deserving of criticism.

 

On vague topic, maybe there's an argument that Drones is The Force Awakens of Muse albums - an attempt to re-do the sounds of yore that people fell in love with, if not quite the same.

Edited by forevermusic

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On the whole thing, I feel the actual campaigners are more deserving of criticism.

The people voted it though

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The people voted it though

 

It's a fair point, though, when people voted for stuff like funding the flagging NHS, and had that bastard turn around and try and say he never said that at all, and it won't happen, despite it being painted on the side of the campaign bus...

 

If people assume every issue that every politician campaigns on is a lie, then why would anyone bother voting.

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The people voted it though

The margin Brexit won by was less than 1.3 million. That's more than enough who were uncertain before the campaign began but were swayed by the glossy advertising Vote Leave and Leave.EU had. Its also more than enough who were independently swayed by newspapers who by June 22nd had just become mindless pro-Brexit propaganda sheets (Express/Star/Sun/Mail).

 

As much as it is cathartic to dismiss those who voted a different way as ill-informed or racist or dumb - and in fairness, there probably were people who fit those stereotypes - slagging off someone for not voting the same way as me feels like I'm wasting irritation that has better targets.

It's a fair point, though, when people voted for stuff like funding the flagging NHS, and had that bastard turn around and try and say he never said that at all, and it won't happen, despite it being painted on the side of the campaign bus...

 

If people assume every issue that every politician campaigns on is a lie, then why would anyone bother voting.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the reason Farage did that public disowning is internal party politics. Vote Leave was the official Conservative campaign for Brexit and as UKIP leader, he was unaffiliated with them. The internal gossip is that the two Leave campaign hated each other, and both apparently regularly thought the other one would lose them the referendum. But the optic remains that because both were wanting the same end, they were on the same point, so it really did undermine the cause spectacularly and opens both up to looking like dicks who sold the public lies.

 

I dunno. Its a dangerous precedent to get into the view everyone in a campaign is lying. Clearly what it might look like is something like the fact that around 47% of American voters that found something better to do yesterday than vote.

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We've always had a low voter turn out, though. I mean, at least in the timeframe any of us were alive.

It's actually looking like turnout might have been *up* in a lot of areas yesterday.

It's more along the lines of the historically pitiful turn out of the "youth vote," women, and minorities.

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Matt being a leave voter isn't surprising in the slightest. Didn't he wear a t-shirt at Reading in 2006 that linked to Alex Jones? He's talked about David Icke a few times too from what I recall. And songs along the lines of Uprising, USoE and the conspiracies about a New World Order, USoE seemed to me about the 'ever closer union' of the EU and moves to consolidate the political power. Then there was the whole Glen Beck thing

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He did disavow the Glenn Beck thing saying he didn't want the music used in "fringe politics."

But honestly, the fact that the songs fit Beck's rhetoric exactly, and further bits in the interview have Beck saying that someone who worked closely with Matt said that his political ramblings sounded just like Beck's should have been pretty telling.

 

People just seem to have picked up on certain blank themes in songs like Uprising, Animals, and rather ignored the rest. Obviously the problem when you're writing really vague, accessible "political" songs.

But I do recall so many people being proud of Matt being an anti-govt Libertarian (something they simply assumed,) and agreeing with it, and I'm confused at seeing some of those people in particular shocked about all this.

 

Do you think a lot of the vocal fans right now even remember the Terror Storm thing?

I think it's pretty unlikely.

 

This is all just another reason that it's disappointing an artist professes to be very "into" politics while writing mostly vague political songs, and sticking to very obvious themes like "the banking crisis is bad, yo," and fleshing out his political thoughts in short, random Tweets.

Then again, it clearly would alienate fans if he actually stood for something, as this Brexit thing shows. He can't have that; he's all about accessibility with his music.

But yeah, disappointing that Muse has come to be seen as such a "political" band in that respect.

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I think things are simply not so clear in his head, just like most people really - and that's fair enough. I you ask me, all the remotely political messages that I can find in his lyrics tend to go in a consistant direction. But I mean, he's just a guy writing about the stuff that comes to his mind now and then; if some people take Muse as their political reference... maybe they need to read other stuff.

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I don't think the conspiracy stuff was very serious since he kind of movdd away from it and reversed some statements.

 

I've had no issue with the political songs being vague. Rarely do I like political songs that are specific. And I just can't really care too much of his stance on things either.

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He may have moved away from the reptillian David Icke stuff but I don't think he's exactly a fan of globalisation/one world government. I'm shocked that people are surprised by his political views on the subject. Especially after advocating Scottish independence.

Edited by Alexander DeLarge

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United States of Eurasia taken in the context of a 1984 reference album gives away quite a lot too.

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Main site no longer has Drones background. Is it happening yet?

 

Nah, even my hype is completely dead at this point :chuckle: Matt said they were just gonna chill out for a bit and I believe him tbh. If anything does happen next year other than the US festivals, I don't think it'll be 'til March/April at the absolute earliest. For the first time I can remember, they actually don't seem to be remotely eager to get back to doing anything major anytime soon.

Edited by Jobby

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