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Yes, I've gone to shows in the winter. You can luck out and have fine weather. There can also be quite treacherous blizzards and ice storms. I don't like making, at this point for Muse, significantly expensive plans several months out when there could be severe conditions. I tend not to leave my city much during winter months, and I have stayed home from a show and ate the cost of a ticket more than once, but they weren't $75+ tickets like Muse are keen to charge these days. All I'm saying is I'd be awful hesitant to get an expensive ticket to an event in Michigan in January, and would probably be a last minute purchase depending on weather. Maybe that's more to do with my diminished enthusiasm for this new album/show.

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UK in January :LOL:

 

SNOW-MAGEDDON! It's enough to cancel the football :LOL::LOL:

You know, I didn't think they were talking about that handful of snowflakes :p:LOL:

 

It did sound like it actually covered the ground... :LOL:

 

Don't you just use an orange ball instead? :erm::chuckle:

 

 

@halo eighteen: I understand your point, driving (or walking - been there :stunned:) in blizzards and ice storms is no fun thing to be doing, and financial risk is worth noting, obviously!

 

I was just irked that some posts in this thread read as if the US were the only place in the world to have severe winter weather, and should thus be exempt from touring at that time. Whilst at the same time it's apparently expensive holiday season and travel is awfully expensive...err, so travel is absolutely possible, obviously! Or course people want things to not clash, but the world is a big place and they have to fit their schedules somehow. I won't even begin to count the amount of times I've been queuing around freezing point because we ALWAYS got winter tours (other band), having had to judge what to wear so as to lose no time to get to the front in handing my coat in - so obviously no classic coat! and stuff like that; travel in snow, ice, winter, anything. I've even done the driving home all night thing. I've driven though snow storms for hours and hours on end, where overtaking was impossible since the only "free" lane was the one everyone else was using... I understand the apprehension, but I don't see such impossibilities as they're made out to be, here.

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Might be seriously underestimating US winters, especially in some areas.

 

It's not uncommon at all here to have several feet if snow at a time, and the last few years had it up (and once to the middle of) the windows of the house.

And not uncommon to not have the roads plowed for hours after it stops coming down.

 

Anyways, it's horribly dangerous to drive in around here, and each snowfall leads to leagues of cars in the ditch, and even a 15 minute drive taking hours.

 

If we have to drive state to state, that's often also a lot of rural, unpopulated areas full of ice, maybe plowed, and super dangerous.

 

I would never drive far in the Midwest like that, and yes, a lot of people stay home if they can, or just go to work, and that's encouraged.

 

Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean everyone fancies putting their life in danger for a concert.

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Apologies if this has already been posted, but apparently there's a credible rumor of Muse in Quebec in January. Sadly nowhere near me, but thought I'd bring it in case anyone knows more-

http://99scenes.com/rumeur-muse-serait-au-centre-videotron-de-quebec-en-janvier-2016/

 

Hey, it's east coast, finally, maybe! :awesome:

 

Dang it, I had been hoping that this continued lack of news meant they might actually be holding off until later next year to do more US/Canadian shows. I am among those not thrilled by the prospect of a mid-winter show. I'm sure Quebec is as far east as they'll come (better than Montreal anyway), but that's still a 10 hour drive from where I am (Halifax). As others here have said, January *could* be fine, but if we get a stretch of weather like we did at times last winter, there can be days on end where it is actually treacherous or downright impossible to drive, and flights are all cancelled (I'd be happy to take the train, but the schedule of that is such that it really depends when the show is as to whether that's do-able...oh how I envy you Brits and Europeans and your efficient rail systems....).

 

Plus for that length of drive, you could have beautiful weather at both ends and nightmarish snow through northern New Brunswick or something like that. So yeah, it's very much possible to travel at that time, it just sucks to have to commit months ahead to a specific date that could be nice or could end up being a nightmare.

 

I know they're probably catering mostly to people living in or closer to the target cities, but there are huge chunks of this country that are a long way away from anywhere these type of bands usually come, and we don't have much choice (note to Muse: play a show in Halifax, or heck, even Moncton, and I'll stop complaining ;) )

 

And forget queuing...any time in January can easily be -20C or below (well, maybe it will be a nice day and only be -10...) Even we Canucks have our limits.... :LOL:

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Might be seriously underestimating US winters, especially in some areas.

 

It's not uncommon at all here to have several feet if snow at a time, and the last few years had it up (and once to the middle of) the windows of the house.

And not uncommon to not have the roads plowed for hours after it stops coming down.

 

Anyways, it's horribly dangerous to drive in around here, and each snowfall leads to leagues of cars in the ditch, and even a 15 minute drive taking hours.

 

If we have to drive state to state, that's often also a lot of rural, unpopulated areas full of ice, maybe plowed, and super dangerous.

 

I would never drive far in the Midwest like that, and yes, a lot of people stay home if they can, or just go to work, and that's encouraged.

 

Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean everyone fancies putting their life in danger for a concert.

 

^exactly my thoughts. As an example: on the drive up to Quebec (or Montreal) from here, there are a few particularly nasty stretches of highway. There's one stretch that every winter has at least a few storms where people get stuck in their cars, just because the snow comes down so fast. Last year there was one storm where it took a couple of days to get all the cars and trucks removed from the snow.

 

The weather can change quick too....a lot of these storms end up coming from systems that were just "supposed" to be light snow or flurries. So even if the forecast looks good, it can be a risky thing to commit to (unless you have a few days flexibility and can wait the weather out....sometimes though you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with no choice but to keep driving....) As I said, it's not that it's inherently impossible to travel at that time of year, just that it's not ideal to have a specific time and date well in advance that you can't change...

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I live in central ohio. During our winters, I'd say 90% of the time it's completely safe to go anywhere. 5% of the time it's bad enough that you need 4 wheel drive to get around, and the other 5% of the time you just better not leave the house unless it's an emergency. That's what it was like the night I drove home from the Muse concert in 2013. I'd never driven in conditions that bad before.

 

I can only assume Quebec is worse in January. But I'm sure it'll be fine if they do. The worst that could happen is a show needs rescheduled due to weather.

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Minnesota is an utter pain in the ass most winters. I'm sure Canada is worse. The last few years it's been snowing into May, too. Blech

 

Sadly as Muse got bigger, a lot of areas of the US get skipped, and the drives have ranged from 6 to 10 hours for a lot of people I knew

I'm not holding out much hope for MN with the center stage.

 

And getting snowed out sucks for people with flights and hotels. :(

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I'm finding it comical that tomorrow morning I'll be buying tickets for a Cure concert in June, 8 months away. Yet Muse still can't get their shit together to announce something that is apparently happening in 2-3 months time?

 

At this point I'm really just hoping for a summer tour, if they won't be burned out from having just done nearly 50 European shows.

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The strange thing is that Muse already have European shows book through the middle of June, yet these U.S. dates have been handled quite poorly. Obviously there will be a 2nd LA show, so where is it? Why wait?

 

I don't think this winter us/Canada tour will be very extensive, due to time constraints. I think probably next summer they'll come back and do an amphitheater tour and hit the areas they've missed. Maybe have a couple opening bands who are big enough to help sell some tickets.

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Might be seriously underestimating US winters, especially in some areas.

 

It's not uncommon at all here to have several feet if snow at a time, and the last few years had it up (and once to the middle of) the windows of the house.

And not uncommon to not have the roads plowed for hours after it stops coming down.

 

Anyways, it's horribly dangerous to drive in around here, and each snowfall leads to leagues of cars in the ditch, and even a 15 minute drive taking hours.

 

If we have to drive state to state, that's often also a lot of rural, unpopulated areas full of ice, maybe plowed, and super dangerous.

 

I would never drive far in the Midwest like that, and yes, a lot of people stay home if they can, or just go to work, and that's encouraged.

 

Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean everyone fancies putting their life in danger for a concert.

I don't know.

There are regions here where a quarter of a metre is called "a little snow", so people are well used to more. :p

Obviously it's a regional thing, but you say it's the same for you.

I've certainly climbed out of the window into the snow, rather than try and use the door in my time! :LOL: (problem is, one has to stay at home to close the window again, or those going out have to take the shovel and work for a few hours...:LOL:)

 

Even if several feet come down, why aren't your snowploughs/system up to that challenge? :erm:

We have a 24/7 on call duty (shift) system here so whenever snowfall starts, ploughs go out and about whatever the time of day and keep the major roads clear first, and then the others. The only time I have known that system to "fail" (it was temporary) was that there were ~20cm of snow on the roads very suddenly and more falling fast, so people just slowed down, kept distance (for a change!) and just trudged along in a row at a sensible pace. Why do you say it's impossible to drive on snow - it simply isn't! (ice/rain frozen over is obviously another matter)

 

If people get to work, they've gone outside and probably driven. So if they managed that... they can manage more.

 

I'm not saying anyone should risk their life for a concert. I'm saying snow is a manageable condition most of the time, especially if you have snow ploughs, and I fail to understand why it doesn't work where you are, since apart from severe storms that can happen in any wintery area, I don't see why it should appear so impossible. And even for storms, if the system is good, all they do is surprise people (who hopefully react well) and delay them for an hour or two until things are cleared.

 

Don't people use winter tyres? (the comment about the many cars in the ditch provokes that question too much!)

 

As others here have said, January *could* be fine, but if we get a stretch of weather like we did at times last winter, there can be days on end where it is actually treacherous or downright impossible to drive, and flights are all cancelled (I'd be happy to take the train, but the schedule of that is such that it really depends when the show is as to whether that's do-able...oh how I envy you Brits and Europeans and your efficient rail systems....).

 

Plus for that length of drive, you could have beautiful weather at both ends and nightmarish snow through northern New Brunswick or something like that. So yeah, it's very much possible to travel at that time, it just sucks to have to commit months ahead to a specific date that could be nice or could end up being a nightmare.

 

I know they're probably catering mostly to people living in or closer to the target cities, but there are huge chunks of this country that are a long way away from anywhere these type of bands usually come, and we don't have much choice (note to Muse: play a show in Halifax, or heck, even Moncton, and I'll stop complaining ;) )

 

And forget queuing...any time in January can easily be -20C or below (well, maybe it will be a nice day and only be -10...) Even we Canucks have our limits.... :LOL:

Now that makes more sense. Could you tell me more about the conditions that make it 'treacherous' to drive? What kind of conditions are we talking about, and what is/can be done to make them better?

 

Bah, -20°C is manageable with the right clothes - just the option of front row without too much baggage is out of question then :LOL:

 

^exactly my thoughts. As an example: on the drive up to Quebec (or Montreal) from here, there are a few particularly nasty stretches of highway. There's one stretch that every winter has at least a few storms where people get stuck in their cars, just because the snow comes down so fast. Last year there was one storm where it took a couple of days to get all the cars and trucks removed from the snow.

 

The weather can change quick too....a lot of these storms end up coming from systems that were just "supposed" to be light snow or flurries. So even if the forecast looks good, it can be a risky thing to commit to (unless you have a few days flexibility and can wait the weather out....sometimes though you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with no choice but to keep driving....) As I said, it's not that it's inherently impossible to travel at that time of year, just that it's not ideal to have a specific time and date well in advance that you can't change...

See, that makes sense. Just, why isn't there an effective system to monitor and look after these areas in place so people aren't left to their own devices?

 

I can follow your reasoning ok. Maybe our weather is usually not quite as severe, and our forecasts good despite what you hear sometimes as complaints - though I can't imagine your forecast system is crap, so do you have loads of annoying little micro-climates going on there, or what? I do recall the corridors you have - 'tornado alley' - from school, so are there similar things for sucky winter conditions maybe?

 

I'm just remembering some news reports we got here about your weather some winter. I remember thinking in jest "Oh, that's where all our snow and cold got lost." :LOL:

 

Unless the band stay at home during winter, someone's going to have the winter gigs. Unless they focused on the Southern hemisphere in Northern winter and vice versa :LOL:

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I absolutely HATE the winters in Minnesota. And unfortunately, we have been starting to get snow in October and I have photos of it snowing here the last week of May the last two years. :noey:

 

I can't speak much for other snow states, but MN also deals with a dangerous amount of ice at the same time, and while in between snows the majority of roads aren't bad, sometimes "in between snows" isn't a very good ratio.

It's incredibly common for me to get off work and when I went in it was fine, and when I got out my entire car is buried.

My wheels constantly get stuck in snow ruts and I can't get my car out, and dealing with snow drifts in the roads and lots that are taller than the hood of my car.

 

Not to mention the COLD. We're consistently the 3rd coldest state in winter, and one of those states ahead of us is Alaska.

The average winter temp in Jan/Feb is around 13F (-7C, I think?) but it's completely common during those months for the daytime temps to drop well below zero. -10F was pretty common last year.

So we get these awful cycles of snow when it's nearing the freezing point or above, drops down to below freezing at night, repeat, which creates a lot of ice layers on the roads and under the snow.

 

As for why we're not prepared? I dunno, I guess state and city budgets could be a problem?

Major highways and freeways are usually good, as long as it's not a snowstorm. Plows will not go out in storms, and wait to salt until the snows stop.

Other roads are really, really hit or miss, and often will not be plowed at all until the snow totally stops.

Private roads are a nightmare. My neighborhood hires its own plows, and only does the roads between 4-6am, and only if it's not snowing. I have had to rent a parking space outside the neighborhood, and walk blocks to my car in knee deep snow at below freezing so I could make it to work.

And they don't salt. We sent them a 3" deep ice core we took off of one of our roads last year.

 

I'm not as fussed about a gig in my city, but I would probably bail on it if there was a snow storm.

Traveling is pretty out of the question, though. I tried to drive 5 hours into Wisconsin back in 2001 for a gig, and got stuck on the highway in my car for long enough I had to shut it off or risk running out of gas.

A lot of those between states stretches there is just literally nothing for hundreds of miles. No where to walk to if you break down or get stuck, and probably a really long stretch of road to plow more than once a snow.

There was so much snow on the road at noon that I couldn't tell where the road was.

It's fucking chaos a lot of the time. I'll take pics this year.

 

I don't know what snow tires are... they just give me two choices of "all weather tires" at the shop. I assume we just use snow tires all year long, because why change your tires after the 3 months of summer is over?

It's mostly just that, despite living here forever, everyone is a complete bastard about driving in the snow and ice, and insist on going 70mph, and passing you whilst losing control of their vehicle.

 

Anyways, as someone above, I really do believe this tour is going to be smaller in the US just due to sheer size and the gigs that didn't do so well on the T2L tour, especially those not near the coasts or major markets, aren't going to see a gig. I have serious doubts MN will get a date, unless they're feeling all nostalgic and willing to lose money (I think they're first US gig was in my state; at least that's what they tell us every gig.)

Which means flying and booking hotels, which means a ton of money and anger if they get snowed in/out. :chuckle:

I dunno. We'll see what the cities and dates are and I'll decide, I guess. I wish I could have gotten LA tickets.

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Wait... I read that again... you have forecasts that aren't crap? Either our meteorologists suck, or there is something with the wind and weather patterns that messes it up.

 

I'd have been better off flipping a coin last year.

 

I remember twice we were going to have the "storm of the decade" and everyone bought all the bottled water out of the grocery store, and we even cut all our employees from work... and nada. Not one snowflake.

 

Then every single day I planned to go out because there was a 5% chance of snow, I got to spend 2 hours digging myself a car tunnel out of a parkinglot.

I mean, they can tell you a storm is coming a few hours in advance, when they see it... but by then I'm already too far from home to make it out.

 

Total chaos. :chuckle:

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Even if several feet come down, why aren't your snowploughs/system up to that challenge? :erm:

We have a 24/7 on call duty (shift) system here so whenever snowfall starts, ploughs go out and about whatever the time of day and keep the major roads clear first, and then the others.

 

We certainly have an awful lot of resources dedicated to snow clearing (it's a massive part of every municipal and provincial budget) and a similar 24/7 on-call system, but sometimes they just can't keep up with how fast things come down. Especially when there is blowing snow, where a road can be re-covered in a matter of minutes after clearing. Plus some of these highways are a long way from any major (or even minor) centres where plowing equipment is located, and it may take an hour or two for a plow to get there. That's major highways still, not secondary roads! They do usually start putting sand or salt down in advance with the forecast, but even that has its limits.

 

 

If people get to work, they've gone outside and probably driven. So if they managed that... they can manage more.

 

 

Well that depends - if your commute to work is maybe a 15minute or half hour drive over roads you know very well, that's a lot different from driving 10-15 hours over roads you don't know well (the nerves can only handle so much!) Plus in a lot of severe storms people don't make it to work. Last winter I had more than a week's worth of "snow days" off work, and there were other days where it wasn't official, but some people living farther out just couldn't make it in.

 

 

I'm not saying anyone should risk their life for a concert. I'm saying snow is a manageable condition most of the time, especially if you have snow ploughs, and I fail to understand why it doesn't work where you are, since apart from severe storms that can happen in any wintery area, I don't see why it should appear so impossible. And even for storms, if the system is good, all they do is surprise people (who hopefully react well) and delay them for an hour or two until things are cleared.

 

 

It is a manageable condition, but when you're dealing with very large areas, many of which are quite remote (even on major highways, where major centres can be several hours apart), it just takes time. An hour or two for things to clear? Depends on the storm!

 

 

Don't people use winter tyres? (the comment about the many cars in the ditch provokes that question too much!)

 

 

Yes, actually they're even mandatory in some provinces (Quebec, for example). They do help for sure, though even they have their limits (and only work if people still drive appropriately for the weather!)

 

 

Now that makes more sense. Could you tell me more about the conditions that make it 'treacherous' to drive? What kind of conditions are we talking about, and what is/can be done to make them better?

 

 

Main ones are blowing snow (which results in white-out conditions, where you quite literally can't see more than a few metres in front of your vehicle), and a combination of snow and ice/freezing rain. White-outs can be terrifying because they can be very localized, so you're driving along and come to an area with strong cross-winds, and suddenly your visibility is zero. In the Maritimes we get lots of rain and snow combinations (gross mess), and some areas (especially through eastern Ontario and Quebec) get lots of freezing rain, which basically just turns the road into a sheet of ice. Sand/salt is put down on the road to help with that, but it all depends when you're driving and whether these things have been dealt with yet.

 

These sorts of conditions are not *impossible* to drive in, they're just not fun. I actually like driving when it's "just snow" on the roads, because that's easy enough to deal with (unless it gets to be too deep) :LOL: Without fail, every time you have a storm that involves ice and/or white-outs, you have major multi-car pileup accidents, plus single cars off the road. You can be the best driver in the world, but if that 18-wheeler behind you can't see you or loses control....

 

 

Bah, -20°C is manageable with the right clothes - just the option of front row without too much baggage is out of question then :LOL:

 

 

It is indeed, and I've worked outdoors in much colder temps than that! But standing around with little to do for hours is less fun, and the clothes you need are a little bulky once you get inside :LOL:

 

 

I can follow your reasoning ok. Maybe our weather is usually not quite as severe, and our forecasts good despite what you hear sometimes as complaints - though I can't imagine your forecast system is crap, so do you have loads of annoying little micro-climates going on there, or what? I do recall the corridors you have - 'tornado alley' - from school, so are there similar things for sucky winter conditions maybe?

 

 

It's actually amazing how much weather conditions can vary from one area to the next. I'll just use the example of driving from here (Halifax NS) to Quebec City - over the course of a ~10 hour drive, you leave from a coastal area that is often more moderate climate (and wet), and within less than an hour you start to move through much hillier inland areas that often get more snow, and have localized areas with strong cross-winds. Moving farther along you hit that section of highway I mentioned, which is a pass at quite high elevation, and can see dramatically higher snow falls. As you get towards Moncton NB you get the effects of being inland from the Bay of Fundy, and temperatures can be either several degrees warmer (in summer) or colder (in winter) than they were in Halifax. Moving across NB you get into some very remote forested areas (hard to access by plows, etc.), and eventually as you get into Quebec you start to get the influence of the St. Lawrence, and so you get more things like freezing rain. Over that distance you can drive through entirely different weather systems, with some areas that are nice and others that are awful. Of course you can also get lucky and it's nice the whole way!

 

The forecasting is not that bad really, but the thing is you'll always get these little micro-variations that are hard to predict very far before they develop.

 

 

I'm just remembering some news reports we got here about your weather some winter. I remember thinking in jest "Oh, that's where all our snow and cold got lost." :LOL:

 

 

:LOL: The simple fact at the end of the day is that winters here can really suck, and sometimes there isn't much you can do about it. Having said that, I love the snow and cold :) And a lot of people here are quite comfortable with driving extensively in winter weather (you have to be, really).

 

The problem is just that there's no way to know too far in advance how the weather will be. If they were to announce say "January 15th" as a date, I have no idea now in October what that day will be like. Heck, I won't know until about a week before really. So can I feel safe buying tickets for that now? There are lots of nice days in January, so maybe....

 

 

Unless the band stay at home during winter, someone's going to have the winter gigs. Unless they focused on the Southern hemisphere in Northern winter and vice versa :LOL:

 

That is very true, I've just been hoping they would avoid some of the worst winter areas in the middle of the winter. In addition to the challenging travel, they might themselves get stuck somewhere (remember they had to cancel a Denver show back in 2010). Last winter Interpol got stuck on their tour bus near Buffalo for about 2 days in that one really crazy storm :LOL:

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^ Wow, that turned into a much longer post than I thought it would be. Long-story short, winter driving can suck, and January dates would really suck for any of us who don't live in or very-near the cities they're playing.

 

Of course if the dates work out right I can just take the train up from here, because that can get through pretty much anything with only minimal delays (though there was one storm here last winter where a freight train got literally buried in snow almost up to the roof and blocked the line for almost 3 days while they dug it out :LOL:). Unfortunately the train from here to Quebec only runs 3 days a week in each direction (welcome to Canada's super archaic rail system....), so depending on what date they announce I may not be able to take enough days off work to make that work. And the longer they delay announcing anything, the more difficult that becomes.....:mad:

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Wow, so much Info. Thanks folks! Now how do I keep my answer as short as possible? :LOL: (probably not at all, and make it two posts...!)

 

I absolutely HATE the winters in Minnesota. And unfortunately, we have been starting to get snow in October and I have photos of it snowing here the last week of May the last two years. :noey:

 

I can't speak much for other snow states, but MN also deals with a dangerous amount of ice at the same time, and while in between snows the majority of roads aren't bad, sometimes "in between snows" isn't a very good ratio.

It's incredibly common for me to get off work and when I went in it was fine, and when I got out my entire car is buried.

My wheels constantly get stuck in snow ruts and I can't get my car out, and dealing with snow drifts in the roads and lots that are taller than the hood of my car.

 

Not to mention the COLD. We're consistently the 3rd coldest state in winter, and one of those states ahead of us is Alaska.

The average winter temp in Jan/Feb is around 13F (-7C, I think?) but it's completely common during those months for the daytime temps to drop well below zero. -10F was pretty common last year.

So we get these awful cycles of snow when it's nearing the freezing point or above, drops down to below freezing at night, repeat, which creates a lot of ice layers on the roads and under the snow.

 

As for why we're not prepared? I dunno, I guess state and city budgets could be a problem?

Major highways and freeways are usually good, as long as it's not a snowstorm. Plows will not go out in storms, and wait to salt until the snows stop.

Other roads are really, really hit or miss, and often will not be plowed at all until the snow totally stops.

Private roads are a nightmare. My neighborhood hires its own plows, and only does the roads between 4-6am, and only if it's not snowing. I have had to rent a parking space outside the neighborhood, and walk blocks to my car in knee deep snow at below freezing so I could make it to work.

And they don't salt. We sent them a 3" deep ice core we took off of one of our roads last year.

 

I'm not as fussed about a gig in my city, but I would probably bail on it if there was a snow storm.

Traveling is pretty out of the question, though. I tried to drive 5 hours into Wisconsin back in 2001 for a gig, and got stuck on the highway in my car for long enough I had to shut it off or risk running out of gas.

A lot of those between states stretches there is just literally nothing for hundreds of miles. No where to walk to if you break down or get stuck, and probably a really long stretch of road to plow more than once a snow.

There was so much snow on the road at noon that I couldn't tell where the road was.

It's fucking chaos a lot of the time. I'll take pics this year.

 

I don't know what snow tires are... they just give me two choices of "all weather tires" at the shop. I assume we just use snow tires all year long, because why change your tires after the 3 months of summer is over?

It's mostly just that, despite living here forever, everyone is a complete bastard about driving in the snow and ice, and insist on going 70mph, and passing you whilst losing control of their vehicle.

 

Anyways, as someone above, I really do believe this tour is going to be smaller in the US just due to sheer size and the gigs that didn't do so well on the T2L tour, especially those not near the coasts or major markets, aren't going to see a gig. I have serious doubts MN will get a date, unless they're feeling all nostalgic and willing to lose money (I think they're first US gig was in my state; at least that's what they tell us every gig.)

Which means flying and booking hotels, which means a ton of money and anger if they get snowed in/out. :chuckle:

I dunno. We'll see what the cities and dates are and I'll decide, I guess. I wish I could have gotten LA tickets.

I've seen winters start anywhere between September and December, or "not at all" for our liking. Varied all over the years. Also ending anything between Febuary and May. It's normal :LOL:

 

Sorry, a list of which state is coldest doesn't tell me much. Yeah Alaska should be cold since it's so far up north, but otherwise you're comparing things I don't know any of, so the comparison is lost on me :LOL:

 

Ice and freezing rain and the likes are shit, I won't even think of arguing with that.

 

As for snow, I looked up on the web and it said your annual maximum is 432 cm in the S.highlands. Can't be that often that it snows up your car completely, unless someone's doing the maths wrong? Doesn't make it better when it does happen, but suggest it's not that often?

 

Wtf is it with ploughs not going out during a storm... that's exactly what they're supposed to do FFS! :facepalm:

 

Also private roads :twitchy: wut? They have to do maintenance then, no? I remember you writing about your area and house situation a while ago, it continues weirder and weirder somehow.

 

All weather tyres are a ruddy joke :LOL: Their rubber mixture is designed to kinda work in all weather, but that includes not being able to work as well as specific tyres for winter and summer in both extreme conditions, and they wear a lot faster usually since they're often out of their optimum range. Basically, winter tyres are designed with softer rubber afaik, below 7°C you're not supposed to be using summer tyres at all since their rubber is harder and gives you less grip. Also the profiles are different afaik.

If you have a winter, you need specific winter tyres. I suppose in the UK you might get away with all weather tyres if temps stay mostly above 7°C and don't go too high in summer, and maybe there are other places with the same climate, but anywhere else...noap. Also using the winter tyres in summer ruins them quickly.

 

No salt is obviously a crap thing. No split/grit either? Though that is useless when freezing over.

 

Drivers sound crap. It's not like everybody would stop here, I suppose, but there luckily aren't that many that'll pass endangering people even more :noey: Though they exist, and are presumably the same asshats who don't know how to keep a reasonable distance, use their indicators, drive without endangering others... /littlerant

 

I also did a little geography research. Basically the US is 1,6x the area of Europe (without Russia), so if the markets were the same (which they aren't, and Europe has so many little markets when it comes to gigs) you should have more gigs than we do if it were to be perfectly fair, which we obviously wouldn't like if it meant our having less :chuckle: But yes, that's the driving/distance argument set in a context.

 

Why couldn't you get LA tickets? :(

 

Wait... I read that again... you have forecasts that aren't crap? Either our meteorologists suck, or there is something with the wind and weather patterns that messes it up.

 

I'd have been better off flipping a coin last year.

 

Total chaos. :chuckle:

Wow. Your weather forecast does sound really awful! Ours is by no means perfect, but the models are often pretty good, even things like a wind forecast is correct way more often than not.

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Apologies if this has already been posted, but apparently there's a credible rumor of Muse in Quebec in January. Sadly nowhere near me, but thought I'd bring it in case anyone knows more-

http://99scenes.com/rumeur-muse-serait-au-centre-videotron-de-quebec-en-janvier-2016/

 

Hey, it's east coast, finally, maybe! :awesome:

 

https://www.billets.com/concerts/muse/

 

Montreal and Quebec apparently confirmed in January, might as well schedule a gig in Toronto too before the NBA All Star Game. Lucky Canadians!

 

New York City (Madison Square Garden or Barclays Center) and Chicago (United Center) and Boston (TD Garden) and Houston/Dallas and perhaps a 2nd LA gig could also be strong possibilities before Muse begin the lengthy European leg of 47 arena shows.

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Now for the one with the good quoting game :happy:

 

We certainly have an awful lot of resources dedicated to snow clearing (it's a massive part of every municipal and provincial budget) and a similar 24/7 on-call system, but sometimes they just can't keep up with how fast things come down. Especially when there is blowing snow, where a road can be re-covered in a matter of minutes after clearing. Plus some of these highways are a long way from any major (or even minor) centres where plowing equipment is located, and it may take an hour or two for a plow to get there. That's major highways still, not secondary roads! They do usually start putting sand or salt down in advance with the forecast, but even that has its limits.

Do you have blowing snow a lot? I think it's the worst and maybe only drawback of 'dry' snow since it happens more with that afaik. Otherwise I prefer that snow over wet sleety stuff obviously! Certainly seen a lot of blowing snow, too! Poor sods driving the snow ploughs, having to do the same roads again and again and again and again :LOL:

 

So basically, at least where you are, there is a system, but it doesn't have enough capacities to deal effectively, and there are too few centres distributed so some areas fall back.

 

Well that depends - if your commute to work is maybe a 15minute or half hour drive over roads you know very well, that's a lot different from driving 10-15 hours over roads you don't know well (the nerves can only handle so much!) Plus in a lot of severe storms people don't make it to work. Last winter I had more than a week's worth of "snow days" off work, and there were other days where it wasn't official, but some people living farther out just couldn't make it in.

That drive I mentioned where overtaking became impossible took about 12 hours - driving time only. :LOL: Thankfully we were several drivers so could swap and rest in turns.

 

It is a manageable condition, but when you're dealing with very large areas, many of which are quite remote (even on major highways, where major centres can be several hours apart), it just takes time. An hour or two for things to clear? Depends on the storm!

I didn't mean the storm to clear, I meant the ploughs to come and clear the roads. I realise I didn't write that clear enough. /clear :LOL:

 

Well, I think here we have the difference coming into play that your population density is lower than that in Europe, and we probably have smaller structures generally so it's more locally organised and that works better?

 

Yes, actually they're even mandatory in some provinces (Quebec, for example). They do help for sure, though even they have their limits (and only work if people still drive appropriately for the weather!)

That's good! But wait, that's Canada then and not the US. Gotta keep that apart I guess!

 

Main ones are blowing snow (which results in white-out conditions, where you quite literally can't see more than a few metres in front of your vehicle), and a combination of snow and ice/freezing rain. White-outs can be terrifying because they can be very localized, so you're driving along and come to an area with strong cross-winds, and suddenly your visibility is zero. In the Maritimes we get lots of rain and snow combinations (gross mess), and some areas (especially through eastern Ontario and Quebec) get lots of freezing rain, which basically just turns the road into a sheet of ice. Sand/salt is put down on the road to help with that, but it all depends when you're driving and whether these things have been dealt with yet.

 

These sorts of conditions are not *impossible* to drive in, they're just not fun. I actually like driving when it's "just snow" on the roads, because that's easy enough to deal with (unless it gets to be too deep) :LOL: Without fail, every time you have a storm that involves ice and/or white-outs, you have major multi-car pileup accidents, plus single cars off the road. You can be the best driver in the world, but if that 18-wheeler behind you can't see you or loses control....

Nothing new in that :LOL: But yes, white-outs are not very amusing since you have to go so incredibly slow. Doing long treks with those in between don't sound fun. Thankfully freezing rain doesn't happen too often.

 

We also have people who can't deal with the conditions, however mild they may be. :chuckle:

 

Very true. Those need to be off the roads before anything happens.

 

It is indeed, and I've worked outdoors in much colder temps than that! But standing around with little to do for hours is less fun, and the clothes you need are a little bulky once you get inside :LOL:

 

It's actually amazing how much weather conditions can vary from one area to the next. I'll just use the example of driving from here (Halifax NS) to Quebec City - over the course of a ~10 hour drive, you leave from a coastal area that is often more moderate climate (and wet), and within less than an hour you start to move through much hillier inland areas that often get more snow, and have localized areas with strong cross-winds. Moving farther along you hit that section of highway I mentioned, which is a pass at quite high elevation, and can see dramatically higher snow falls. As you get towards Moncton NB you get the effects of being inland from the Bay of Fundy, and temperatures can be either several degrees warmer (in summer) or colder (in winter) than they were in Halifax. Moving across NB you get into some very remote forested areas (hard to access by plows, etc.), and eventually as you get into Quebec you start to get the influence of the St. Lawrence, and so you get more things like freezing rain. Over that distance you can drive through entirely different weather systems, with some areas that are nice and others that are awful. Of course you can also get lucky and it's nice the whole way!

 

The forecasting is not that bad really, but the thing is you'll always get these little micro-variations that are hard to predict very far before they develop.

:LOL: The simple fact at the end of the day is that winters here can really suck, and sometimes there isn't much you can do about it. Having said that, I love the snow and cold :) And a lot of people here are quite comfortable with driving extensively in winter weather (you have to be, really).

 

The problem is just that there's no way to know too far in advance how the weather will be. If they were to announce say "January 15th" as a date, I have no idea now in October what that day will be like. Heck, I won't know until about a week before really. So can I feel safe buying tickets for that now? There are lots of nice days in January, so maybe....

 

That is very true, I've just been hoping they would avoid some of the worst winter areas in the middle of the winter. In addition to the challenging travel, they might themselves get stuck somewhere (remember they had to cancel a Denver show back in 2010). Last winter Interpol got stuck on their tour bus near Buffalo for about 2 days in that one really crazy storm :LOL:

Indeed (the bulky clothes) :chuckle:

 

Thanks for the drive example, I think I get the idea better now. Basically the problem returns to the few gigs you have so far with thus long treks, and indeed micro-climates in the game.

 

It is the same here. I suppose the only difference is that we have a functioning train service that can back up most travels should the roads be crap - unless things happen that derail the train service (happens often enough :LOL: )

 

^ Wow, that turned into a much longer post than I thought it would be. Long-story short, winter driving can suck, and January dates would really suck for any of us who don't live in or very-near the cities they're playing.

 

And the longer they delay announcing anything, the more difficult that becomes.....:mad:

Yes, it sucks wherever you are. Longer distance makes it more risky, and your microclimates you do get in the long travels even more so. I suppose it's a bit like crossing through the Alps and Italy in one trek, or something.

 

Yeah I don't understand that bit either. I wonder what the explanation for that will be, if there will be any.

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Last winter Interpol got stuck on their tour bus near Buffalo for about 2 days in that one really crazy storm :LOL:

 

Yes I remember that. I remember looking at their Twitter, which was quite memorable reading when that happened - they were stuck in a snowstorm outside Buffalo for around 60 hours, and then got stuck in Buffalo itself. I like the fact #Winterpol became a thing... any suggestions for a similar Muse one if they inevitably get caught up in such storms this coming winter?

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Snowfall in Minnesota varies extensively from year to year, and there's also a ton of variance in how much of it sticks around for how long before it melts.

The measurements are also a bit of a joke; if you Google around, there's some convoluted measuring systems they use, but basically if you measure one foot of snow with a ruler, that won't be anywhere near close to what they call it. :chuckle:

Something along the lines of they call 10 inches of water one foot of snow, but way, way more variables.

So, we were once told we had 11 inches of snow, and it was up over our knees, on average, because there wasn't as much water in the flakes, or something.

It's... pretty useless. :chuckle:

 

As far as the state rankings, essentially there's 50 of us, one of them is in Canada, and if you hate the cold, mine is one of the absolute worst. It also means our winter is different than a lot of other states where it still snows a bit. When you talk to people in a lot of other states about Minnesota, some of them honest to god think it snows all year round, like we live in the Arctic, or something. But, it does feel like that in the winter. They also think we all talk like the people in that Fargo movie, and honestly, some of us do.

We have a reputation for sucky weather. And for being nice; which isn't at all accurate.

:LOL:

 

I'm trying to find that map that someone threw together for the TR tour with the US dates, but even then, a lot of those dates were cut on the T2L tour. There's pretty big areas that get left out due to the stage show costs for Muse, and it leaves a lot of people having to drive long distances if they want to see them.

I wouldn't bitch driving 20 minutes into town, but that's not going to happen, and it's so unpredictable that time of year, driving 10 hours through the wilderness (well, also tons of farms...) could be completely impossible.

So, I'd be looking at expensive flights, hotels, renting cars, and all that bullcrap - which only gets more stressful as they drag it out, and these things go up in price.

 

The LA tickets were either incredibly hard to get, or the AXS website bugged out on me. I didn't get anything during the pre-sale, and then had a lot of problems with the AXS website being complete balls during the general sale.

By some weird coincidence, the LA date fell on the one stretch of days I have off that time of year (so they can force me to work through xmas) and it would have been nice to go somewhere warm that I've never been to before.

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Now for the one with the good quoting game :happy:

 

 

I had to remind myself how to do the whole multi-quoting thing - it's a must for this sort of conversation :)

 

 

Do you have blowing snow a lot? I think it's the worst and maybe only drawback of 'dry' snow since it happens more with that afaik. Otherwise I prefer that snow over wet sleety stuff obviously!

 

 

Yeah, we just get a lot of wind generally, so there are always some areas where it blows (and trust me, with enough wind that wet sleety stuff can blow pretty good too...). There's actually one place near here that has a permanent sign warning about blowing snow - it's a spot where you come down a good sized hill, cross a body of water, then go up again. So it forms a little valley and the wind just whips across there. Even if it isn't snowing, any snow on the ground can get blown across there. But yes, the drier stuff is generally better for driving on otherwise.

 

 

So basically, at least where you are, there is a system, but it doesn't have enough capacities to deal effectively, and there are too few centres distributed so some areas fall back.

 

 

Exactly. It's just one of the realities of living in a huge geographic area with a very small population density - it's just hard to cover all that area period, and you're always limited by budgets.

 

 

That drive I mentioned where overtaking became impossible took about 12 hours - driving time only. :LOL: Thankfully we were several drivers so could swap and rest in turns.

 

 

Not fun, but good you had other drivers! Two winters ago I had a 1.5h drive turn into about a 6.5h one, and I was alone in the car (in a rental car without winter tires, no less!)

 

 

Well, I think here we have the difference coming into play that your population density is lower than that in Europe, and we probably have smaller structures generally so it's more locally organised and that works better?

 

That's exactly it!

 

We also have people who can't deal with the conditions, however mild they may be. :chuckle:

 

 

I always have a laugh during the first snowfall of the season - it's like everyone has forgotten how to drive on snow at all :LOL:

 

 

Thanks for the drive example, I think I get the idea better now. Basically the problem returns to the few gigs you have so far with thus long treks, and indeed micro-climates in the game.

 

 

Yep, that's the crux of it. If you want to go to a show, your only option is to go a long way. That's also true for many other parts of the country, and to be fair, it will always be an issue for some even if they played every place in Canada that counted as a "city". It's just a bit frustrating here in the Maritimes, because so few acts come east of Montreal (Quebec City is actually pretty far "east" in terms of what a lot of them do). My gf and I have made plenty of trips up to Montreal and Toronto for concerts (up to Toronto for Pixies and Robert Plant this year, for example), and we always get the same reaction from people there: "you came ALL THE WAY from Halifax for a concert??" But their frame of reference is usually driving an hour or two tops (and being able to access some US markets), and we always have to point out that apart from the odd act that does come to Halifax or Moncton, we don't have any choice.

 

 

It is the same here. I suppose the only difference is that we have a functioning train service that can back up most travels should the roads be crap - unless things happen that derail the train service (happens often enough :LOL: )

 

 

As I said before....oh how I envy those train services!

 

 

Yes, it sucks wherever you are. Longer distance makes it more risky, and your microclimates you do get in the long travels even more so. I suppose it's a bit like crossing through the Alps and Italy in one trek, or something.

 

The distances in North America in general can be pretty massive (and with very little along the way) - Canada in particular has a very small population spread out thinly over a very wide distance. Halifax to Quebec City is 1,020km - for reference (borrowing from your example) that's like driving from Zurich to Naples, or Paris to Prague, or for a UK example: that's like driving from London to, well, basically the very northern tip of Scotland. Heck, London to Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Bern are all shorter distances than that! And there's not really a whole lot in between...

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They will probably play in these cities for certain;

 

Dallas

Houston

Denver

Phoenix

Seattle

Vancouver

Chicago

Minneapolis/st. Paul

Detroit

Toronto

Montreal

Quebec

Boston

New York x2 or 3

Philadelphia

Washington, D.C.

Atlanta

A Florida city

 

Then of course LA 2.

 

Maybe a couple Midwest shows, but probably not as extensively as they did last time.

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What?! :eek:

 

It's all a matter of perspective! There is one train from Halifax to Montreal - it runs 3 times a WEEK. It used to be 6 days a week before government cuts forced it to be reduced (our passenger rail system is a federally-owned Crown corporation). That's still better service than anything west of Toronto. Our major "corridor" for rail service is between Toronto and Montreal. On a weekday, there are 9 trains in each direction, several of which go through Ottawa and therefore take nearly twice the time. The latest train in either direction is around 6pm. All of them run a schedule that is slower than it was in the 1990s, and there are even fewer trains on weekends...

 

The trains themselves are great, very comfy, great service, very nice way to travel....but as a useful transportation system? Not so much.... So yeah, the British system looks pretty swanky by comparison :LOL:

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