haze015 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What's your point? That's exactly the same situation as shifting it up then distorting it (assuming no massive treble rolloff on the pedal). In fact from personal experience, I always found putting the whammy second reduced treble as the frequency response is a bit shit. I found it to be the complete opposite and it did lead to comments after a couple of gigs years ago when I had initially bought it. It's not the same situation though. There's be no significance in pedal order if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I found it to be the complete opposite and it did lead to comments after a couple of gigs years ago when I had initially bought it. It's not the same situation though. There's be no significance in pedal order if that was the case. I'm not saying it doesn't affect the sound, just that your explanation is bollocks - if you pitch shift a sound then distort it, you have the same harmonic content as distorting something then shifting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 To be fair, the whammy fucks up the signal so much anyway that all of the nice harmonic frequencies we spend so much time perfecting all get mushed up into one horribly grotesque squelch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic. Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not saying it doesn't affect the sound, just that your explanation is bollocks - if you pitch shift a sound then distort it, you have the same harmonic content as distorting something then shifting it. I actually agree with Mr Goldenbollocks about the harmonics produced by the OD pedal then being shifted which would produce a different sound with the OD before the whammy Whether that makes it unlistenable though would depend on the overall setup though I imagine, and wouldn't necessarily make it sound shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I actually agree with Mr Goldenbollocks about the harmonics produced by the OD pedal then being shifted which would produce a different sound with the OD before the whammy Whether that makes it unlistenable though would depend on the overall setup though I imagine, and wouldn't necessarily make it sound shit You can agree all you like, it doesn't change the physics of the thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I see what youre all saying, but lets be honest, as much fun as the whammy is, it really is a bit shit at what it does. No matter what order you put it in, youre gonna get a horrible rank squeal out of the other end. Luckily, we make it sound fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not saying it doesn't affect the sound, just that your explanation is bollocks - if you pitch shift a sound then distort it, you have the same harmonic content as distorting something then shifting it. That's not the case at all. It's possible though, but not with guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I get what haze is saying. The distortion is producing frequencies that weren't there before that are then being shifted up into ear piercing frequencies. If the distortion is after the whammy it's only distorting the pitch shifted clean signal. I dunno if realistically that's what's happening, would be interesting to do it both ways through a frequency graph thingymajig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Batman. Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You can agree all you like, it doesn't change the physics of the thing If the distortion pedal adds loads of harmonics, then these harmonics would be an octave up when put through the whammy. If the whammy was first, you'd have just the clean guitar signal an octave up, then after that you'd have the distortion, which would add the harmonics, but not at an octave up, seeing as they've not been put through a whammy. I'm talking complete bullshit aren't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I get what haze is saying. The distortion is producing frequencies that weren't there before that are then being shifted up into ear piercing frequencies. If the distortion is after the whammy it's only distorting the pitch shifted clean signal. I dunno if realistically that's what's happening, would be interesting to do it both ways through a frequency graph thingymajig. If you tried it with a synthesizer or something, then what Jon is saying is possible, it's just that a guitar's sound is more complex than a typical synth and distortion pedals and amps don't have an even frequency response, nor do speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It gets to a point where the amp wont even be reproducing the highest frequencies because it just cant do it, same as youre losing frequency response when you use the dive bomb setting. Guitar amps just arent designed to make frequencies that high, which is why it really isnt making that much of a problem when putting the distortion first... And even if the speakers could do frequencies that high, the whammy is distoring the signal so much itself that theyre gone anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze015 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It gets to a point where the amp wont even be reproducing the highest frequencies because it just cant do it, same as youre losing frequency response when you use the dive bomb setting. Guitar amps just arent designed to make frequencies that high, which is why it really isnt making that much of a problem when putting the distortion first... And even if the speakers could do frequencies that high, the whammy is distoring the signal so much itself that theyre gone anyway. Your ears are sensitive to certain frequencies, which the speakers typically used with guitar amps can produce (It's not the amp itself that can't produce those frequencies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelligentAl Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Your ears are sensitive to certain frequencies, which the speakers typically used with guitar amps can produce (It's not the amp itself that can't produce those frequencies). If the amp isnt producing them, you wont hear them. Im really not certain what it is that youre trying to say here, but I think we can pretty much settle that putting the whammy after the overdrive isnt going to fuck up your sound like you originally said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If the distortion pedal adds loads of harmonics, then these harmonics would be an octave up when put through the whammy. If the whammy was first, you'd have just the clean guitar signal an octave up, then after that you'd have the distortion, which would add the harmonics, but not at an octave up, seeing as they've not been put through a whammy. I'm talking complete bullshit aren't I? Yes. With the whammy first, the harmonics produced would also be an octave up because the fundamental is an octave up! Distortion pedals don't just add set frequencies, they add harmonics related to the incoming signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord MFC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I just tried it before and after the fuzz, after sounds way better on my board, but I do see everyone's point. However, when after the fuzz and when the whammy is on, it sucks the fuzz out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That's not the case at all. It's possible though, but not with guitars. As I said, it will change the sound but not because of harmonics. The pedal's frequency response curve will be shifted up but for the ranges we're talking (and given that it's going through a guitar speaker), unless you have a really high Q in the mids somewhere it's not going to make a lot of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord MFC Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I also like to mess with pitch shifting oscillation so my FF is first... Yes, my under title is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Batman. Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yes. With the whammy first, the harmonics produced would also be an octave up because the fundamental is an octave up! Distortion pedals don't just add set frequencies, they add harmonics related to the incoming signal. Aaah I get it now, I wasn't taking into account that the distortion pedal's added harmonics would be relative to the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 wow, some people really know their whammies! Maybe less time spent waggling your whammies in your bedroom and more time getting them out on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Aaah I get it now, I wasn't taking into account that the distortion pedal's added harmonics would be relative to the input Haha I think a few people made that mistake, I did at first! wow, some people really know their whammies! Maybe less time spent waggling your whammies in your bedroom and more time getting them out on stage. I'm a professional, don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm a professional, don't worry about it. I know you're a pro - usual time behind the bushes on Thursday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I know you're a pro - usual time behind the bushes on Thursday? I think I may have double booked with your mother, let me check my diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think I may have double booked with your mother, let me check my diary. god damnit that bitch is one cock-hungry slut. You think all the exercise would keep her lean as well but... well, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramatic Hammer Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 god damnit that bitch is one cock-hungry slut. You think all the exercise would keep her lean as well but... well, you know. She is one big lady - it's probably all the protein she's gobbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ugh all she talks about is big jon's protein shake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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