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I dare say a lot of the bankers who caused the mess we're in have degrees, and Oxbridge degrees at that and I met lots of people during my time at uni who were stupid...they just so happened to be good at a particular subject and had an arrogant streak so succeeded in getting their own way. I wasn't surprised when the banking system collapsed having met some of the people who were no doubt going to go into the financial sector after uni!

 

The banking crisis involved a lot more than just bankers, it's more due to the poor organisation/management of banks, but bankers make a nice scapegoat for the media.

Irresponsible lending and mortgages certainly wasn't caused by overpaid bankers, as mortgage/loan underwriters earn about £15k and most likely managed by someone who doesn't know the first thing about the products. From then on, it's just a case of the numbers looking good as they get passed up the chain.

Obviously some of the things bankers got involved with was irresponsible, but it was part of an almighty list of failings going on.

 

/wasworkingforabankwhenthisallkickedoff.

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:chuckle:

The banking crisis involved a lot more than just bankers, it's more due to the poor organisation/management of banks, but bankers make a nice scapegoat for the media.

Irresponsible lending and mortgages certainly wasn't caused by overpaid bankers, as mortgage/loan underwriters earn about £15k and most likely managed by someone who doesn't know the first thing about the products. From then on, it's just a case of the numbers looking good as they get passed up the chain.

Obviously some of the things bankers got involved with was irresponsible, but it was part of an almighty list of failings going on.

 

/wasworkingforabankwhenthisallkickedoff.

 

Well whoever was individually responsible, I understand that it was a result of banks lending money they didn't have and an anomaly (well I'm not sure if it was an anomaly but something in the system) which meant that lending was seen as an asset. Well that's what I understood from my politics lecturer.

 

The bugbear I think was the fact that the top dogs of these failing banks still walked away with massive bonuses which no one should be entitled too unless of course you're a hugely successful and talented rock star! ;):chuckle:

 

No seriously, I'm with Ed Milliband, why not tax the banks, instead of taking services away from ordinary people.

 

And I don't think that Uprising is referring to bankers in particular just the discrepancy between the massive payouts given to some of these people and what it is like for ordinary people. I also think it refers to lots of other things that are a result of our capitalist system incidentally. Uprising is not just about bankers.

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Carrie, why won't you just give up the whole "I won't continue this discussion" and accept that you can't let it be :LOL:

 

Because this is a different discussion. I am motivated by anti-capitalism. I'm pretty anti the way things are.

 

PS Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment or I've had to many glasses of wine this evening! ;)

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Muse lyrics = bollocks 90% of the time. Matt just got bored writing songs about not getting laid/relationships etc and decided to go for politics. I don't really take any of his lyrics seriously really.

 

Oddly enough, I used to take lyrics to their older material more seriously, cos the songs felt a bit more serious as music, if that makes sense?! E.g. I find Plug In Baby more serious than Uprising or USoE because the latter two feel a little bit more gimmicky, in a way. They have serious messages, sure, but they feel more fun than some sinister political statement. PiB, arguably, doesn't have some deep or dark message (depending on your interpretation, I guess), and the words seems a bit more light-hearted than the rest of OoS, but I'd take it more seriously as a piece of music/song.

 

In fact, a lot of their politically-driven songs are mostly lols when you listen to the words: Exo-Politics (zetas anyone?), Uprising, USoE, Unnatural Selection, Assassin etc. There are exceptions, of course - Take a Bow was political, too, but that was darker and didn't have a hint of sillyness like some of the songs on The Resistance. The melody of the songs greatly impact my ability to deem them 'serious', and the lyrics accompany that. There's this bombast to them, which might be heightened by the fact that Muse seem to dress more like knobs on stage these days, haha... it goes hand in hand - I can't claim to take Muse or a lot of their songs all that seriously when they're dressed in sparkly glitter suits with flashing glasses or light-up costumes and tinfoil scuba unisuits, so hearing Uprising and seeing that image on stage = big lolz :LOL:.

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So come on!....?

 

Actually I was thinking earlier as I was reading about the music business and consumption etc to do with something entirely different, (some trainee research I have to do) I wonder whether the comedy is Muse's get out. I suppose I have a wider way of looking at things. Comedy is often a disguise for a serious message. It's a dilution which allows something to get through. That's the way I see it.

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Well whoever was individually responsible, I understand that it was a result of banks lending money they didn't have and an anomaly (well I'm not sure if it was an anomaly but something in the system) which meant that lending was seen as an asset. Well that's what I understood from my politics lecturer.

 

Your politics lecturer heavily simplified it then. :)

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Your politics lecturer heavily simplified it then. :)

 

 

Well maybe. I still hate the capitalistic system though and the government (any government) obsession with "the economy". We're being grounded down. I just think we're in dire need of a new paradigm.

 

Actually since you are claiming you know about this stuff. Who do we owe the money too? Everyone's in dire straits with this debt. Who are we in debt to?

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Well maybe. I still hate the capitalistic system though and the government (any government) obsession with "the economy". We're being grounded down. I just think we're in dire need of a new paradigm.

 

Actually since you are claiming you know about this stuff. Who do we owe the money too? Everyone's in dire straits with this debt. Who are we in debt to?

 

It'll be banks and other countries. Not sure who Britain owes money to, exactly. We were in debt to the USA for WW2 for well over 50 years. (And I believe the USA currently owe money to China! Can't remember what was going on there.)

 

It won't be the actual amount that'll be the issue, it'll be interest on top. Third world debt is continued simply through the interest being added to the debt.

 

And I did say I worked in the financial sector, so if you saw a bank/building society going under, that meant more work the next day as the public went mental :awesome:

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It'll be banks and other countries. Not sure who Britain owes money to, exactly. We were in debt to the USA for WW2 for well over 50 years.

 

It won't be the actual amount that'll be the issue, it'll be interest on top. Third world debt is continued simply through the interest being added to the debt.

 

And I did say I worked in the financial sector, so if you saw a bank/building society going under, that meant more work the next day as the public went mental :awesome:

 

But everyone seems to be in debt! I mean there's the IMF but I thought they were mainly USA supported and the USA have huge debts too. It's just weird. Somewhere, people must be raking it in but it's weird that it's unclear who they are. There's the World Bank but I'm not quite sure who they are tbh, just a group of countries. And basically it's all numbers on a computer programme at the end of the day. Surely if everyone got together and thought, let's forget this silliness, we could start again. Set Matt Bellamy up as their chief computer manager or something and wipe the whole thing! :LOL:

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But everyone seems to be in debt! I mean there's the IMF but I thought they were mainly USA supported and the USA have huge debts too. It's just weird. Somewhere, people must be raking it in but it's weird that it's unclear who they are. There's the World Bank but I'm not quite sure who they are tbh, just a group of countries. And basically it's all numbers on a computer programme at the end of the day. Surely if everyone got together and thought, let's forget this silliness, we could start again. Set Matt Bellamy up as their chief computer manager or something and wipe the whole thing! :LOL:

 

Matt would literally wipe the whole thing by 'accidentally' deleting everything on his first day, like he did with their website years ago. He'd make as good a leader as George Dubbya Bush. :awesome:

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Matt would literally wipe the whole thing by 'accidentally' deleting everything on his first day, like he did with their website years ago. He'd make as good a leader as George Dubbya Bush. :awesome:

 

That was my point! :LOL: Jk though! I think he has a lot more going for him than Dubbya, just a bit! ;):happy:

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Well maybe. I still hate the capitalistic system though and the government (any government) obsession with "the economy". We're being grounded down. I just think we're in dire need of a new paradigm.

 

Actually since you are claiming you know about this stuff. Who do we owe the money too? Everyone's in dire straits with this debt. Who are we in debt to?

Idealistic, and utterly unworkable.

 

Do you know why the government is obsessed with the economy? Because you need money to buy things, and things like healthcare and education and roads and whatnot - these things cost lots of money. Unless you like your doctors working for free?

 

The reason the capitalistic system is, well, the only option is that is the only system that is remotely equitable and natural.

 

As for debt, it depends on the country. For the UK:

 

gilt-holdings.png

 

---

 

But everyone seems to be in debt! I mean there's the IMF but I thought they were mainly USA supported and the USA have huge debts too. It's just weird. Somewhere, people must be raking it in but it's weird that it's unclear who they are. There's the World Bank but I'm not quite sure who they are tbh, just a group of countries. And basically it's all numbers on a computer programme at the end of the day. Surely if everyone got together and thought, let's forget this silliness, we could start again. Set Matt Bellamy up as their chief computer manager or something and wipe the whole thing!

 

They're not raking it in, so to speak. That's why the debt is there... because someone lent the government money, whether it be investment money, or what have you, and kind of wants it back.

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It's the only system that is in inline with human nature, which is fundamentally horrible.

Better than trying to do something that's not, which is even worse. Because otherwise it's impossible to make allowances for human nature, which is by its nature extremely difficult to predict.

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Idealistic, and utterly unworkable.

 

Do you know why the government is obsessed with the economy? Because you need money to buy things, and things like healthcare and education and roads and whatnot - these things cost lots of money. Unless you like your doctors working for free?

 

The reason the capitalistic system is, well, the only option is that is the only system that is remotely equitable and natural.

 

Is it equitable that power and money dictates, that the majority of the top jobs are occupied by people from public schools, that half the population own 93% of the wealth, that there is poverty in the third world while shops in Bond Street, or wherever it was, are running out of designer handbags?

 

Neither is it natural. Things happen because of policies that support it, often resulting from a background ideology.

 

Consumerism and the placing of profit above other considerations is being actively supported and it can be as much a trap as a freedom, people working long hours in an attempt to buy things they don't actually need but that they think will make them feel better, when in fact it's often the case that well being is being compromised by lack of free time.

 

For most the perceived standard is unachieveable without credit that puts everyone in debt to the banks and the bar is continuously being raised. That debt means that a lot of people have to work long hours just to keep their heads above the water.

 

Also there are vast amounts of overproduction in order to support this business led culture. Why on earth do we need 50 different variations of shampoo to choose from? Western consumption is unsustainable. Stripping our earth of resources for the manufacturer of products we often don't actually need is about the most unnatural thing that can happen.

 

It's not about roads and hospitals, a lot of that comes from our taxes, it's about business and the market. Neither is it about jobs because jobs are being cut in services that provide social benefit like education and the health service.

 

I'm not sure that I would want it to go as far as overturning Capitalism entirely but the way we are going needs to be given serious thought imo.

 

I think it's the money lenders who are raking it in well as well as the big businesses of course. Lending of money isn't an equal partnership. There's big profits to be made from lending money.

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The question was originally how seriously do YOU take Uprising. So far direct responses have been mostly how seriously Muse take it.... Which is not that much probably.

 

BUT, there has been a lot of discussion about the similar topics presented in Uprising in this thread, so I think the lyrics have seriousness to them. If it was literally gibberish, there wouldn't be any political/economical debate at all. But there was, so whether you all like it or not, I'd say you appear to be taking the lyrics more seriously than Muse.

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