Museman8989
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Posts posted by Museman8989
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You're probably talking to Jobby and not me, but yeah, a step in the right direction. Still disappointingly short for expensive arena gigs, though.
I didn't think the first setlists were bad, other than short, either; Houston or Dallas would have made me very happy despite the length. (Although I'd probably have had to leave before people got into Dallas.)
It was that gig where Bliss was literally crossed off where things started to go horribly wrong.
Every single person, everywhere, who buys concert tickets is "guessing."
I would say a person buying tickets to Muse expecting Starlight and KoC would be more than in their rights to be pissed if they weren't played, too.
All I said was, based on previous tours and recent gigs (and things Matt himself stated) it's completely fair to not expect "hey, I bet this tour is going to be WAY shorter than the last ones!
"I don't know where you got the idea we're comparing stadiums to arenas, because we aren't.
Europe's arena gigs are longer than ours, and last tours arena gigs were too.
That's what people are talking about.
Honestly, the stadium T2L visuals sucked compared to the arena ones, imo, anyways.
You might not have mentioned it specifically but I've seen other people mention that, so apologies. I still stand by my statement though. Plus the last time I checked Matt is only accurate with what he tells us about 3% of the time, feel like people take things said much too seriously, and again; if you're buying $100's worth of tickets based on words and past tours, you're setting yourself up for trouble. I'm not saying you can't be annoyed, but you took the risk so you gotta go with it.
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Concerts are always a crap shoot, but I think it's pretty fair to say not a lot of people should be personally held accountable for buying tickets sight unseen to this tour expecting:
- heavier album, maybe heavier set (backed up by the festival tour!)
- more thematic, less like a slapped together cluster of hits (Matt himself talked about it)
- functioning stage props
- it wouldn't consist of less songs than the last arena tours in the same country; pretty much only as long as a festival
And, based on last tours, I would have expected at least a decent shot at seeing a cool older song or two that I hadn't seen before.
I've seen a grand total of three gigs and I've gotten TaB, Sunburn, US, Map, and GL (which I guess was rarer in the US.)
And one of those sets was only 15 songs long.
This tour, there was a good chance I wouldn't see a single non-Drones song I have seen at least twice already.
Call it expectations all you want, but all you're doing is making guesses. no one tour (and this goes for any band) can ever predict what a future tour will bring. From what I've seen Muse never plays the same shows for festivals as they do stadium tours, so idk why everyone thought that would magically change this time. As I said before, if you're throwing down big bucks for multiple shows you need to acknowledge the risks inherent, not hope/guesstimate/predict that the shows are going to be what you want and then get pissy when they're not.
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Alexander DeLarge has complained about every single show that's he's attended for years. You'd think he'd stop going when something was wrong with every single show. Yes, sometimes there are things that aren't cool at some of the shows that I go to, but overall the shows are great and entertaining. Only one show out of 20 something that I've gone to was legitimately bad in my opinion, which is a good record. But if I were to have something disappointing in every show the way Alexander DeLarge does, I would start spending my time and money on another band. And I have done that before.
I agree. As far as Muse goes a time when someone gets "fucked over" is extremely rare. I'd say an actual existence of this would be say the Philly show I went to last tour. The special pre-gig before the show got CE, and then during the concert we got animals and guiding light while all the other shows prior and after got NSC, Fury, Agitated, US, BH, etc. and the boys energy level were definitely down since they traveled overnight. But out of all the shows I've been to that's the only complaint I have, so I'd say that's pretty good. DeLarge on the other hand has been to numerous shows with rare songs played (and according to his gigs attended list, has suddenly been to shows as far back as 2004 when he was 11 years old) and yet still complains. He even found a way to complain about the Webster Hall gig, which in my estimation is the best concert I've ever been and will go to. Some people just can't be pleased, ever.
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I'd say there definitely is such a thing as getting fucked over, especially since he probably bought all of his tickets directly after the festival tour and probably, and rightly so, expected the much higher quality of the sets to carry over to the main tour, as we all expected it would.
i disagree. when you're spending that kind of money you cannot make those choices based off of assumptions and predictions; but that's just me
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That doesn't change the fact that he still payed $500+ this time around to see them. Why does that he saw them play something good one time for 7 minutes make it justifiable that he get fucked over for 10 hours?
there's no such thing as getting "fucked over" (for the most part) when it comes to going to concerts. we all play the lottery with how many shows we go to. we're not guaranteed to get 6 different sets at 6 different shows so its stupid to sit back and complain about how one set of shows got this and the other didn't, that's a risk you take going into purchasing tickets. it's never a secret that Muse doesn't change their nightly sets much, so if you buy $500 worth of tickets you can't have high expectations.
addition: in no way am I saying that it's correct that it works out that way, but with Muse that's the way it is. If you want to buy tickets to 6 gigs, that's great; but you can't go into the shows assuming that because you spent all that money you'll get something "special".
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Then don't take my word for it look at the numbers
numbers? in absolutely no way can you assume that there is a correlation between lower ticket sales and the fans annoyance at the sets being played from your "research". you're a statisticians worst nightmare.
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Great, so the East Coast can get an awesome set two tours in a row and the West Coast fans are idiots as usual for having the audacity to show up and expect a comparable set. Not to mention it's another opportunity for everyone on the East Coast regularly getting good good sets to tell us to stop complaining.
Now people doing New York back to back can get more rotation and more variety than I did in five dates that were 5 hours driving distsance from each other.
you saw assassin and hyper music at the mayan, you've lost all rights to complain
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on a happy note, the set is evolving to something a lot more fun, so let's hope that trend continues.
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Considering I've done plenty of shows in seats/general admission (in the front where people are coming up to chat and hang out all day) this tour, I'd like to think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about here. The only people that are blown away are the first timers. Everyone loves the stage production but people are generally unhappy with the setlists. I've heard various complaints but "Vegas show vibe" "greatest hits tour" and "legacy act" are the things I've heard most.
They're doing less dates in every city on this continent. That alone should give you a pretty good idea of a decline in ticket sales. Look at the released box office numbers. The crowds are dead and it seems like the general audience knows very little outside of the singles. There's a reason for that and it's because the pop radio audience simply isn't returning tour after tour to see Madness/Starlight for $80. If they were, there would be more of a demand than what we saw in cities where they used to have no problems.
The pop radio "I only know the singles" audience isn't sustainable. The "I'll see them once a tour" are starting to get annoyed hearing over half of the set two-three tours in a row and the hardcore audience is sick of getting the same set night after night. How long will they be able to ride out that "best live band" title from 2008 (while it was still accurate)?
when there's upwards of over 10,000 people at a show, you can't chat with several people and then make generalizations off of that, that's just ridiculous. even if you talked to 50 people per show and have been to every US show with an average attendance of 9K you've spoken to .5% of the population. sharing opinions is fine, but don't act like you can accurately speak for everyone attending this tour.
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Even when you talk to the casual fans, they're getting tired of hearing more than half the set every single tour. It would do them quite a bit of good to retire some of the hits for a while.
do you go around interviewing every single casual fan before the show? starlight isn't going anywhere, you need to get over it.
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The crowds are the way they are in the US because of Madness. It is that simple. While standing in line in the grocery store today Madness came on the easy listening station they play. The woman behind the register literally told me how much she loved the band who sings it but couldn't remember their name. They released that song to go after the general public (aka cash grab) and they got it. Now they have no right to complain that the crowds are calm when their most famous song here is considered easy listening. They veered away from their sound to get a wider audience base. Well, they got it and now they have to figure out how to work it out. Pissing off fans who have been around for a long time is probably not the way to go.
On a different note while demoing some skis this week while the bindings were being set PiB came on in the store and every employee along with some other patrons knew it immediately by the feedback. People do know your older songs Muse. Maybe you could use the concerts as a way to introduce fans to some of your older stuff. Don't apologize for it, make it exciting. Instead of "none of you know it, please bear with me" try something like "here is an older one a ton of our fans love, get ready to rock." Huge difference there. One makes the crowd want to go to the bathroom, the other piques their interest. Kind of like if I cook dinner for someone. I don't apologizer and tell them it sucks as I hand them the plate. No matter how good it is they are expecting it to suck.
i agree the way they introduce a song like that can go a long way. but matt is by no means a smooth talker, so he'd actually have to practice that type of thing
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While the Psycho tour was a nice gesture, they did end up playing several festivals that got 2-3 Psycho tour gigs worth of rarities. Would've been nice to see the clubs get a set like Werchter or Download. Just saying.
#NeverSatisfied
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Crowd sucked at the Mayan. This dude next to me complained that my friends and I were jumping too much. We were in the second row. Would have loved to have been in the NYC crowd.
Yeah the NYC crowd was insane. Even starlight got people jumping around.
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that bloody messageboard
Lovely*
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That's not what happened.
Matt made a backhanded comment that could be interpreted any number of ways. He could be sick of the song, and tired of people requesting it. He could genuinely believe the vast majority of people there don't like it (I mean, look at the crowd). He could be taking the piss.
It's really only an issue if you want it to be one.
Where did they do this?
I don't think Matt is one to be that tongue in cheek on the spot. If he says something along the lines of "we're gonna play this song even though most of you don't know it", then that's what it means. I highly doubt he said that phrase while thinking "I'm so tired of people wanting to hear CE".
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Well Muse generally plays different sets for tours vs. festivals vs. whatever; I'm fine with that because that's an established thing for them, I wouldn't expect those shows. But to rework the setlist to a lesser quality version here and then drive a couple miles North and have a totally different attitude is definitely hurtful to hear as a fan.
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What vexes me most about what Matt said before CE last night is that he's admitting they're playing the song in spite of knowing most people don't know the song. Do they not think America is any different? Him saying that implies that America knows of the "older" muse even less than Canada where only "10 people" know it as it is apparently. So he knows most of the crowd isn't going to know it but plays it for them, but they won't do that here? That one totally loses me.
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I think this very succinctly sums up how I feel about the Drones tour so far.
i agree as well. the 2nd law tour did a very solid job of varying things up. there was usually 4 songs a night that rotated in and out and you got a solid array of their catalog. now with Map in for PiB we have no songs pre-absolution and that to me is inexcusable. as its been stated the show is by no means bad, but it could so easily be so much better. i think (for americans at least) this will go down as by far the most frustrating tour they've ever done.
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Oh look it's musersadvocate not advocating for musers
oh look its a pretentious entitled little boy who thinks he deserves everything and cries when he doesn't get it. i dare you to go to a concert and enjoy it.
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i dont consider this so much an argument but more about dan just saying things and everyone else disagreeing, which is par for the course
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To be fair, I think it's awful when they throw harmonicas and shit out beyond second row. Why reward people who didn't put in tons of effort?
I'm at a loss for words with you sometimes. Since when is there any correlation between arriving to a concert early and "deserving rewards"? In my experiences a lot of the people at the front push their way there from the back once the show has started. But knowing you I'm sure you'd get security involved to prevent such a travesty from occurring.
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So if this clearly something that annoys so many of us so much is there anything we can actually do to change things?
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my friend and i are driving up from new york to see this show. can anyone recommend a hotel to stay at nearby? (reasonable priced preferably). its our first time going to canada, so any other tips would be appreciated. thanks!
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I'm an entitled whiner that should just stop complaining or go to Europe when seeing their festivals are better when it comes to heavier, more obscure material versus our extremely private club shows "for the hardcore fans". Heard it all before.
im not telling how to rectify your "problem" but you sure as hell are an entitled whiner.
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Would have loved to have been in the NYC crowd.
Psycho/Drones General Tour Discussion Thread
in Tours
Posted
right; "anything" could correlate. absolutely no way to prove what that variable(s) could be. especially as something as flimsy as " i talked to some people at 3 or 4 shows and they said different things about the setlists"